Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

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Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Shane
I read AJ's "10 greatest heavyweight boxers blog," and he proved a good point about Marciano and Frazier; it's hard to say who was better as they're basically the same fighter with a few differences between them. My two questions are

A. Who would have won had they fought?

B. Who was the better fighter in general?





Who wins?
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Maximillian
Unlike Rocky Marciano, Joe Frazier actually fought talented opposition in their primes. Joe was better and for a variety of reasons. If they fought, Joe would cut Rocky's face into ribbons with his left hook. That is, if Rocky could even take the punch.

GIFSoup
"Take that, Big George!! I'mma BAAAD MAAN!! I shook up the world!!! I'm pretty!!!!"
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

GatorPurify
It's hard to say. Rocky hit harder than Frazier, but Frazier was more precise with his punches. Marciano tended to leave holes. It would depend on how many punches Rocky landed on Frazier. I dunno how many of those punches Frazier could take. On the other hand Rocky's wild punches would have been exploited by Frazier. Frazier would counter every miss by Rocky and slice his face up. Rocky tended to cut easy as was mentioned. If Frazier didn't knock him out the fight would be stopped on cuts by round 7-8 I believe ( or maybe sooner).  
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Zorro
Rocky may have been a little bit better. He had better stamina than Joe, although not by much. Rocky also took a better punch than Frazier. This fight would come down to Rocky's right hand against Joe's left hook. Joe's left hook was brutal, but Rocky's Suzy-Q right hand would put a man to sleep for a count of 30 or more. Rocky also had a left hook just as good as Joe if not better.

Someone on Eastside boxing said that if Joe fought in Rocky's era he would have gone undefeated too. I doubt it. Someone would stop him. I can't say who. But someone would.
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Duggerman
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Zorro wrote
Someone on Eastside boxing said that if Joe fought in Rocky's era he would have gone undefeated too. I doubt it. Someone would stop him. I can't say who. But someone would.
I'm not sure on that. Seriously, who in Marciano's era could stop Joe Frazier? I think Frazier would have an easier time crunching down on Marciano's opponents than Marciano did. Frazier was quicker and more accurate with his punches. He also moved in quicker than Marciano. I don't see Frazier struggling with Don Cockell or having so much trouble with Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott. He'd plow right through those guys.

In my opinion, Frazier was better than Marciano. It's a real close one, but Frazier fought in a much better era and demolished some great contenders--Ali, Quarry, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Machen, etc. I think Marciano had a better chin because he was hurt less than Frazier was, but his tendency to cut makes him vulnerable to good punchers anyway.

If the two had fought each other, I would put my money on Smokin' Joe. Frazier would pound Marciano with hard left hook counters. However, they would be bobbing and weaving into each other's punches, which would make Frazier vulnerable to Marciano's uppercuts or inside hooks. Could go either way, but I back Frazier because he was consistently beat Marciano to the punch. That accurate left hook would cut Marciano up, leading to a stoppage.
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

49-0
Two different types of fighters.

Frazier was a rhythm fighter, an energiser bunny with a pin point left hook he could double up and land at any range. He weaved his head as much to transfer his weight from one foot to the other to launch a shot as opposed to avoiding a punch. If his head went down it was coming back up even if your punch was on its way.

Marciano countered his way in. where as Frazier led.

Marciano drew a fighter into him as opposed to chasing him out of the ring. He had no rhythm but that made him deadly because there was no pattern to follow. You moved in to reach him then he hit you. Frazier met you with a punch, it was already coming.

With Frazier what you saw was what you got. Marciano looked crude but there was method to the madness that could catch you out. rocky also had two hands and he did not swarm for the sake of swarming. Both could fight all day but only rocky made his openings. Frazier had one gear flat out, straight at you. That's why he was such an easy target for George Foreman.

The Rock made his style work for him...he was very awkward...he dipped...you really didn't know where the punches were coming from...he looks beatable ..and you always have a plan...but when you enter the ring..and Rocky imposes his will on you...your fight plan goes out the window..and then you go into survival mode...and try to survive his onslaught
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Duggerman
Administrator
49-0 wrote
Marciano drew a fighter into him as opposed to chasing him out of the ring. He had no rhythm but that made him deadly because there was no pattern to follow.

Frazier had one gear flat out, straight at you. That's why he was such an easy target for George Foreman.
I couldn't have said it better myself, and I'm a professional writer.
Since Rocky crouched low and attacked from awkward angles, do you think he would have fared better against Big George?
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

49-0
Duggerman wrote
Since Rocky crouched low and attacked from awkward angles, do you think he would have fared better against Big George?
Yes. Rocky threw punches from all angles. Frazier was a sharper and more accurate puncher than Rocky, but that worked against him with Foreman. Frazier's punches landed right on the button, but with Rocky, you can't tell where his punches are going to come from. He might hit you with a left to the ribs, and then a wild Suzy-Q haymaker might come from outta nowhere and knock you senseless. Frazier had accuracy and speed, but Rocky made up for it for his unpredicatable punching angles.
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Maximillian
49-0 wrote
Duggerman wrote
Since Rocky crouched low and attacked from awkward angles, do you think he would have fared better against Big George?
Yes. Rocky threw punches from all angles. Frazier was a sharper and more accurate puncher than Rocky, but that worked against him with Foreman. Frazier's punches landed right on the button, but with Rocky, you can't tell where his punches are going to come from. He might hit you with a left to the ribs, and then a wild Suzy-Q haymaker might come from outta nowhere and knock you senseless. Frazier had accuracy and speed, but Rocky made up for it for his unpredicatable punching angles.
You avoided answering the man's question. So I'll answer it for him.

By ducking in his pathetic "crouch" Rocky would be wide available for George's uppercuts. Rocky never took a blow from a puncher like George Foreman in his life. Archie Moore and Joe Walcott both put Rocky on the deck, and they don't hit as hard as a Frazier, Tua, Liston, Foreman, or Shavers. Or even a Dempsey.

If Rocky got his brains scrambled by old men like Walcott and Moore, can any sane person expect him to survive a blow from George Fcuking Foreman???? The answer is no.

GIFSoup
"Take that, Big George!! I'mma BAAAD MAAN!! I shook up the world!!! I'm pretty!!!!"
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

49-0
The Greatest wrote
If Rocky got his brains scrambled by old men like Walcott and Moore, can any sane person expect him to survive a blow from George Fcuking Foreman???? The answer is no.
Marciano was on the canvas less than 98% of HW champions. You just go overboard on this.

The Greatest wrote
By ducking in his pathetic "crouch" Rocky would be wide available for George's uppercuts. Rocky never took a blow from a puncher like George Foreman in his life. Archie Moore and Joe Walcott both put Rocky on the deck, and they don't hit as hard as a Frazier, Tua, Liston, Foreman, or Shavers. Or even a Dempsey.
Rocky did fight men over 200 pounds who could really punch. Look at his record. They may not have been as good as a Liston or a Frazier, but they could really pop. Carmine Vingo was 6'4 and over 200 pounds. He's an example of a modern American heavyweight by today's standards, and Rocky beat him into a coma. By the time Rocky won the title, all of the big contenders weighed a little under 200 pounds.

Look at what the Rock did to Archie Moore.

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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Shane
In reply to this post by 49-0
49-0 wrote
Two different types of fighters.

Frazier was a rhythm fighter, an energiser bunny with a pin point left hook he could double up and land at any range. He weaved his head as much to transfer his weight from one foot to the other to launch a shot as opposed to avoiding a punch. If his head went down it was coming back up even if your punch was on its way.

Marciano countered his way in. where as Frazier led.

Marciano drew a fighter into him as opposed to chasing him out of the ring. He had no rhythm but that made him deadly because there was no pattern to follow. You moved in to reach him then he hit you. Frazier met you with a punch, it was already coming.

With Frazier what you saw was what you got. Marciano looked crude but there was method to the madness that could catch you out. rocky also had two hands and he did not swarm for the sake of swarming. Both could fight all day but only rocky made his openings. Frazier had one gear flat out, straight at you. That's why he was such an easy target for George Foreman.

The Rock made his style work for him...he was very awkward...he dipped...you really didn't know where the punches were coming from...he looks beatable ..and you always have a plan...but when you enter the ring..and Rocky imposes his will on you...your fight plan goes out the window..and then you go into survival mode...and try to survive his onslaught
Good breakdown.  Frazier was more of a volume puncher, but I think he probably wasted more energy by always bobbing. Rocky was more smooth and relaxed in his defenses. Who do you think would have won if they stepped in the ring together?
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Maximillian
In reply to this post by 49-0
49-0 wrote
Rocky did fight men over 200 pounds who could really punch. Look at his record. They may not have been as good as a Liston or a Frazier, but they could really pop. Carmine Vingo was 6'4 and over 200 pounds. He's an example of a modern American heavyweight by today's standards, and Rocky beat him into a coma. By the time Rocky won the title, all of the big contenders weighed a little under 200 pounds.
Give me another example of a heavyweight Rocky fought who weighed over 200 pounds and was not old Joe Louis, fat Don Cockell, or Carmine Vingo.

GIFSoup
"Take that, Big George!! I'mma BAAAD MAAN!! I shook up the world!!! I'm pretty!!!!"
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

49-0
The Greatest wrote
Give me another example of a heavyweight Rocky fought who weighed over 200 pounds and was not old Joe Louis, fat Don Cockell, or Carmine Vingo.
Bill Hardeman (206 pounds) : KO 1

James Connoly (213 pounds) :TKO 1

Artie Donato (201 pounds) : KO 1

Elbridge Eatman (206 pounds) :TKO 3

Johnny Shkor (220 pounds) :TKO 6

Bill Wilson (229 pounds) :TKO 1

Keene Simmons (200 pounds) :TKO 8

And these are just a few of the 200 pounders he fought. There are more. You can check Rocky's full record at this link.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009032&cat=boxer


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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Duggerman
Administrator
Judging by these stats, the bigger they are, the harder they fall when facing The Rock.

Boxrec is one of my favorite websites, btw.
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

49-0
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Shane
Redemption wrote
 Who do you think would have won if they stepped in the ring together?
Rocky might get off to a rough start, but he'd weather the storm of Jack and knock him stone cold. Rocky would stay in really close and not give Jack the room and punching leverage he would need. Remember Rocky's first fight with Walcott? Walcott jumped on him early just as Jack Dempsey would, and after being overwhelmed and getting knocked down, Rocky adjusted quickly.

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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Maximillian
In reply to this post by 49-0
49-0 wrote
The Greatest wrote
Give me another example of a heavyweight Rocky fought who weighed over 200 pounds and was not old Joe Louis, fat Don Cockell, or Carmine Vingo.
Bill Hardeman (206 pounds) : KO 1

James Connoly (213 pounds) :TKO 1

Artie Donato (201 pounds) : KO 1

Elbridge Eatman (206 pounds) :TKO 3

Johnny Shkor (220 pounds) :TKO 6

Bill Wilson (229 pounds) :TKO 1

Keene Simmons (200 pounds) :TKO 8

And these are just a few of the 200 pounders he fought. There are more. You can check Rocky's full record at this link.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=009032&cat=boxer
Please my nig. Why haven't I heard of these people? This is the same as Mike Tyson knocking out tomato cans in the 80s. These are phone book names. (sighs)


GIFSoup
"Take that, Big George!! I'mma BAAAD MAAN!! I shook up the world!!! I'm pretty!!!!"
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Duggerman
Administrator
It's funny how Marciano was naturally stronger and a bit more powerful than Frazier, despite being much smaller. Frazier was 205 pounds in his prime. Marciano was only 187.
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Bugs
In reply to this post by Shane
Redemption wrote
I read AJ's "10 greatest heavyweight boxers blog," and he proved a good point about Marciano and Frazier; it's hard to say who was better as they're basically the same fighter with a few differences between them. My two questions are

A. Who would have won had they fought?

B. Who was the better fighter in general?




Joe Frazier was better than Rocky. Not trying to discredit Rocky, but Joe's pressure was better. He'd be all over you like white on rice and that left hook didn't play. He beat you up with it and it landed right on the button. He'd hit you in the body and the head. You couldn't escape it. If Joe and Rocky squared off, I'd have to give it to Joe..
Eh....What's Up, Doc?
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

Bert Sugar
In reply to this post by 49-0
49-0 wrote
Look at what the Rock did to Archie Moore.

Rocky Marciano's slugfest with Archie Moore has to go down as one of the best heavyweight title fights of all time. Rocky got knocked down in the second round and Archie Moore blamed the referee for giving Rocky a "breather" to gather himself. Archie felt that this gave Rocky time to clear his head. And suddenly Rocky came on strong and beat the bejabbers out of the old Mongoose. Great fight. One of the best.
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Re: Better Fighter: Marciano or Frazier?

BAD INTENTIONS
I have to give Rocky credit for being a beast with both hands, but Frazier was slicker and more precise. He fought better competition than Rocky. Hell, he handed the great Muhammad Ali his first loss and gave him hell in the following rematches. If Frazier fought Marciano, I think Frazier would win by knockout or TKO because his left hook would leave Rocky a bloody mess.
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