Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

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Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Duggerman
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Tyson was bigger. But when you compare their knockouts, Rocky's foes tended to get knocked out cold. In general, some of Tyson's opponents struggled more to beat the count...some even had to be dropped numerous times. That's kind of funny considering Marciano was only 185 pounds or so. I think Tyson's speed and snap in his punches is what knocked his opponents out, while Rocky was more of a natural slugger. Thoughts?
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

George Jefferson
I could see that. For Tyson it was the timing, accuracy, leverage and speed of the punch. He was like Joe Louis that way. But when he fought like a reckless slugger against Ruddock, Golota and guys like that, his power still hurt them plenty. But does it count for anything that Tyson was bombing out huge guys and most of Rocky's KO victims were under 200 pounds?
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Zombies Ate Me
Naw. Rocky don't hit harder than Mike..
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Shane
In reply to this post by George Jefferson
George Jefferson wrote
 But does it count for anything that Tyson was bombing out huge guys and most of Rocky's KO victims were under 200 pounds?
Rocky KO'd a lot of men over 200 pounds on his way up the heavyweight ladder. There's a poster here named 49-0 that posted a list of them he got from boxrec. I don't remember what thread he posted it in but I do remember that Rocky put most of those guys away early the way Tyson did. In terms of brute strength I think their power is even but Tyson was the sharper puncher of the two. There's a reason they used to call him "Kid Dynamite."
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Zorro
They both hit hard for sure but Mike hit harder. Compare their opponents. Do you think Mike Tyson would take 8 rounds to knock out Ezzard Charles? Would he take 9 rounds to KO Archie Moore and Don Cockell? Would it take him 8 rounds to finally finish old Joe Louis? No but that's what happened to Rocky. Tyson would blow out most of Rocky's opposition within a round. Tyson had a level of power that hadn't been seen before the 1950s.
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

BAD INTENTIONS
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
Tyson was bigger. But when you compare their knockouts, Rocky's foes tended to get knocked out cold. In general, some of Tyson's opponents struggled more to beat the count...some even had to be dropped numerous times. That's kind of funny considering Marciano was only 185 pounds or so. I think Tyson's speed and snap in his punches is what knocked his opponents out, while Rocky was more of a natural slugger. Thoughts?
Rocky was essentially a crusierweight with a heavyweight punch. If he knew how to punch properly the way Tyson does, he would have had quicker KOs. Rocky threw wild haymakers that often missed but he hurt you when he landed. If he had a trainer like Cus D'Amato to teach him proper punching technique, he would have been another Tyson.

To answer the question tho, their power is about even. It just took Rocky longer because sometimes it took him 8 or 9 rounds to land flush while Tyson hit you right on the button in the opening rounds.
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Evolution
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
I think Tyson's speed and snap in his punches is what knocked his opponents out, while Rocky was more of a natural slugger. Thoughts?
Basically. I know all about this type of thing. During my years sparring with guys like David Tua and George Foreman, I learned that those men are hard hitters. They punch with a lot of force. One blow would knock you across the ring.

Guys like Wladimir Klitschko, Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are sharp punchers. They're more explosive. They crack hard and the impact can render you unconscious. They know how to punch properly. A correct punch will knock you out quicker than a telegraphed hard punch.

I'll never forget the left hook Wlad knocked me out with. I did not see it coming and it blasted me out.

Regarding Marciano and Tyson, I'll say that Marciano relied soley on his strength but Tyson was the better puncher of the two.
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

the boston strong boy
In reply to this post by Duggerman
both hit real hard i give tyson the edge tyson was also much faster with his hands at his best
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Alexander
In reply to this post by George Jefferson
George Jefferson wrote
 But does it count for anything that Tyson was bombing out huge guys and most of Rocky's KO victims were under 200 pounds?
Rocky punched out almost every tooth in Rex Layne's mouth and sent his gum guard into the crowd.
It take massive power to do that. If Layne was 6'6 240+ it wouldn't of made any difference. Rocky broke Roland LaStarza's arms, he punched so hard.

Putting over 185lbs of body weight behind a punch is enough to knock out any man of any size.
Rocky had a special gift of using leverage to generate power and his short reach maximised the energy on impact. The shorter the punch has to travel , the more force will be land. He used to punch a special 275 pound heavy bag around like it was nothing. I'll bet you if any modern fighter took a body assault from Rocky they'd wince into the fetal position before being counted out and carried out of the ring on a gurney.
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Entaowed
This post was updated on .
That is interesting, I wonder...To be scien-terrific about it, if you measure pure force I'll bet the slower sluggers hit harder, but the sharp explosive guys can have more impact due to surprise & location.

Rocky was not realy taught to punch properly?  I really question that.  When he mastered that crocuching style, as Alexander implies, he seems to have maximized his power.  He may have hit at least as hard as Tyson, amazing giving his size.

But I do not think he had the speed to be another Tyson.  Great-but not as great head to head.  Tyson just had great speed, accuracy, technique, & excellent defense in his prime.  Rocky's greater heart & toughness is not enough to make up for all that, through no fault of his own.

As I said before about Frazier: put Rocy's braiaiaian in a talent like Tua's body?  Then "Zombie/Smokin' Rocky-Tua" would reighn for years.  It could be as long as Holmes or longer.
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

BAD INTENTIONS
Entaowed wrote
ROcky was not realy taught to punch properly?  I really question that.  
Rocky was an "Anywhere hitter"..... he was not accurate and didn't put the right amount of "snap" in his blows....he hit hard but he was not an explosive puncher the way Tyson or Dempsey were....Rocky could punch but not by the book...those looping haymakers he used to throw were not textbook but he did hurt when he landed....if Foreman and Marciano punched correctly the way Louis and Tyson did, they would have likely killed many opponents..
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Entaowed
I know he was not accurate, but would this "snap" really mean that these guys could realy hit with more measurable force?  
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Duggerman
Administrator
I think I see where Bad Intentions is coming from. Rocky threw a lot of crude haymakers but the punch that stopped Walcott was short, compact and accurate. If Rocky threw all of his punches like that, he'd be another Tyson.
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

49-0
Rocky threw every punch the way you throw a baseball (as hard as you could). He wasn't a boxing master but he could slug. I always felt that the term slugger was invented for Rocky Marciano. Rocky hit as hard as Tyson which is amazing considering he was so much lighter.
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by Alexander
George Jefferson wrote
 But does it count for anything that Tyson was bombing out huge guys and most of Rocky's KO victims were under 200 pounds?
Good point.

Alexander wrote
Rocky punched out almost every tooth in Rex Layne's mouth and sent his gum guard into the crowd.
It take massive power to do that. If Layne was 6'6 240+ it wouldn't of made any difference. Rocky broke Roland LaStarza's arms, he punched so hard.

Putting over 185lbs of body weight behind a punch is enough to knock out any man of any size.
Rocky had a special gift of using leverage to generate power and his short reach maximised the energy on impact. The shorter the punch has to travel , the more force will be land. He used to punch a special 275 pound heavy bag around like it was nothing. I'll bet you if any modern fighter took a body assault from Rocky they'd wince into the fetal position before being counted out and carried out of the ring on a gurney.
Also very good points.

IMO Rocky hit extremely hard and in bigger numbers than Tyson, but overall Tyson hit harder. I've seen Rocky stop a lot of guys with one punch- hell, it was his trademark - but another trademark was his nonstop assault. It was like fighting a propeller or someone hitting you with a baseball bat all over your body as hard as they could over and over again. Rocky could knock you out either way.

Who knows? Rocky's power may damn well have destroyed the monsters of modern eras. Maybe Rocky could have kayod Mitch Green while Tyson couldn't. We'll just never know...
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Re: Could you argue that Marciano punched harder than Tyson?

Big Red
In reply to this post by Alexander
Alexander wrote
Rocky punched out almost every tooth in Rex Layne's mouth and sent his gum guard into the crowd.
It take massive power to do that. If Layne was 6'6 240+ it wouldn't of made any difference.
Actually it would make a difference, because Rocky's punch wouldn't have the same impact on someone that size. The chances drop of Rocky landing that exact same punch on someone that size. Unlike Dempsey and Tyson, Rocky didn't leap off the mat to land his blows against taller men. If Layne was 6'6 and ducked into Rocky's range, then sure. But he wouldn't be able to land a crushing shot like that upstairs unless Layne was helpless against the ropes ready for the taking, or if he ducked down into Rocky's range. And like I said, Rocky wasn't the type to spring off the mat to land his sledgehammer attacks.