Emanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Duggerman
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Evolution wrote
Emanuel's prediction will happen. I'm sure of it. Wlad is one of the toughest SOBs to lace up the gloves. I know it from sparring with the man. I like to take credit for helping to groom him into the assassin he is today.
Most of Wlad's opponents have a hard time getting to his chin because he's got that long jab and sneaky (knockout) straight right. They're at a disadvantage because they're shorter and he can catch them coming in. How would Wlad do against someone much taller? He'd have to change up his strategy a bit, no?

You said you're 6'4, which is almost close to him in height. How did you do against him? You spot any weaknesses?
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Apollo
Banned User
Duggerman wrote
You said you're 6'4, which is almost close to him in height. How did you do against him? You spot any weaknesses?
His weakness is common knowledge. He has no inside game and a weak chin. When someone steps inside, he either grabs you or jumps back.

His outside game also consists of three punches - left jab, right hand, left hook. Everything os perfectly thrown, perfect technique and lots of power with fast feet along with it. But he only throws the right hand when he touches you with the left jab because he won't take risks to miss and get countered.

If you box from the outside (like Evolution possibly does) you have to move, react fast and keep the right distance at all times, which means you need the ability to box while backing up. Sultan Ibragimov did a good job at that.

Why did David Haye lose? Well, you still have to land punches ir order to win the rounds. I also noticed that David throws wild haymakers and no straight punches which eliminates the opportunity to outjab Wladimir.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

redfeng007
Wladimir hardly throw any uppercuts, unlike Lennox Lewis.

If he met a powerful inside fighters like Frazier & Tyson, who could cut into his path.

He was in deep trouble without grabbing or jumping back.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Apollo
Apollo Creed wrote
His weakness is common knowledge. He has no inside game and a weak chin. When someone steps inside, he either grabs you or jumps back.
I know. We've discussed that before. But things would be easier for a taller fighter because they wouldn't have to risk getting close. They could land distance punches much better. That's why I asked Evolution (a tall athlete) if he knew of any ways someone close in height to Wlad could expose him.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

MAGUIRE
In reply to this post by Evolution
It does look like its about to happen. But seriously, it doesn't impress me and Louis' legacy will always be better. Joe Louis defeated Max Baer 14 months after he turned professional and he defeated Jersey Joe Walcott 13 years later when he was well past his prime. Both of these fighters are top 30 all time heavyweights and he was fighting a consistently high level of opposition in between.

He was defeated by Max Schmeling in his second year as a professional fighter and would suffer his next defeat at the hands of Ezzard Charles 14 years later. The three fighters who defeated him all won the lineal heavyweight title outside of their fights with Louis and were top 30 all time heavyweights.

Before his induction into the army Louis defended the title 4.5 times a year on average and the majority of his challengers were ranked contenders.

Consider all that as well as the fact that Wlad is a giant who is too big for most of his opponents to smash that fragile chin.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

redfeng007
This post was updated on .
Guess Tyson Fury has given us the answer.

It shows that how hard for a Boxer to maintain such a long win streak.

25 Title defense for Joe Louis.

49 Straight Wins for Rocky with 43 KO.

Fighter may get lazy, an off night, fighting style hard to adapt, biased judges, extreme injuries that they have to quit in the corner.

Many kind of reasons that one fighter has to lose a fight.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

redfeng007
In reply to this post by George Jefferson
Although the result is out, I believe that Wlad should have won if he is focused.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

MAGUIRE
Lennox pins Wlad's bad final performances on the death of Emanuel Steward. Makes sense.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/boxing/article-4196224/Lennox-Lewis-says-Wladimir-Klitschko-needed-former-trainer.html
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Joe Kingman
Administrator
In a roundabout way Wlad did kind of break one of Joe’s records. In terms of COMBINED championship reigns, Wlad edges out Joe’s 11 years with 12. But Joe still has his records of the longest consecutive championship reign and the most title defenses at 25.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Sivul
Joe Kingman wrote
In a roundabout way Wlad did kind of break one of Joe’s records. In terms of COMBINED championship reigns, Wlad edges out Joe’s 11 years with 12. But Joe still has his records of the longest consecutive championship reign and the most title defenses at 25.
But does that really count? If we do combined title defenses and years as champ then the legacies change. For example Ali had a total of 19 successful title defenses, but that's the combined number of defenses he had during THREE different reigns as heavyweight champion. (1964-1970, 1974-1978, 1978-1979)

That leads to the overall question; does consecutives matter more? Or combined overall?

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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Duggerman
Administrator
Sivul wrote
Joe Kingman wrote
In a roundabout way Wlad did kind of break one of Joe’s records. In terms of COMBINED championship reigns, Wlad edges out Joe’s 11 years with 12. But Joe still has his records of the longest consecutive championship reign and the most title defenses at 25.
But does that really count? If we do combined title defenses and years as champ then the legacies change. For example Ali had a total of 19 successful title defenses, but that's the combined number of defenses he had during THREE different reigns as heavyweight champion. (1964-1970, 1974-1978, 1978-1979)

That leads to the overall question; does consecutives matter more? Or combined overall?
We've always counted it by consecutives. I see no reason to change it now. Like you said, it would rearrange a lot of legacies.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Westmoreland
I disagree if we're being honest. Imagine if Rocky Marciano lost one fight early on, and won the rest. Would we discredit the one loss? We have to evaluate the whole record not just consecutives. So yeah, Wlad broke Joe's record in terms of longevity as heavyweight champion. Give him his credit folks.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Entaowed
Banned User
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Duggerman
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

Duggerman
Administrator
Entaowed wrote
It depends upon what record one considers.  He broke one for most title defenses, not the Joe Louis record.  Still remarkable.

We mus consider context when evaluating how great a record or an athlete is.
The environment: yes it is a weaker era than the one before, though most eras are labeled thusly.
That even if skill is lesser they have grown so large compensates to an extent for the lost degreeoff difficulty.

The single thing that detracts the most for me is the "home cooking" of being allowed so much clinching.
Still, he rarely lost a round.

Even considering the early devastating losses & the above factors, he accomplished so much that I do not see how Wlad can be denied top 10 HW status All Time.  Arguably top 5.

Thoughts?
He didn't break the record of title defenses, although he came close. Joe Louis' records still stands. BUT Wladimir had a longer reign as champion if you combine both of his title reigns. Therein lies the dilemma. Do you feel that Wlad broke Louis' record of title longevity on a technicality? Because if you say so, then you'd have to re-evaluate every champion's legacy.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

MAGUIRE
In reply to this post by Westmoreland
Westmoreland wrote
I disagree if we're being honest. Imagine if Rocky Marciano lost one fight early on, and won the rest. Would we discredit the one loss? We have to evaluate the whole record not just consecutives. So yeah, Wlad broke Joe's record in terms of longevity as heavyweight champion. Give him his credit folks.
Well, Wlad had a good ten year reign. Joe had a good 11 year reign. Close but no cigar.

And, if you wanna get technical, Joe didn't lose the lineal championship until he lost to Ezzard Charles in 1950 so you could say Joe held the lineal heavyweight championship for 13 years.
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Re: Emmanuel Steward Says Wladimir Klitschko will break Joe Louis' record of 25 title defenses

The Golden Jet
In reply to this post by Joe Kingman
I don't think it counts. Joe had a longer reign and more title defenses. Wlad is a bad boy though.

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