Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

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Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Malik Wright



I just don't think so. Look at his resume. Wins the undisputed championship by knocking out fat Buster Douglas, struggles against old Holmes and Foreman, almost gets KO'd by Bert Cooper, ducks Razor Ruddock, loses the championship to Riddick Bowe.

Think thats bad? It gets worse.

Wins the title from Riddick on points (barely) then promptly loses it to Michael Moorer.

****Retires****

Comes back, redeems himself a little by beating Ray Mercer, then loses to Riddick Bowe (again), beats journeyman Bobby Czyz, then beats Mike Tyson by headbutting and clinching, tries the same tactics in the rematch and gets his ears snacked on for it.

Gets revenge against Michael Moorer (great performance) then receives a gift "draw" against Lennox Lewis. Lennox has to then fight him again to finally get the victory.

By this point Evander is past his best and people are calling for retirement, but wait a minute. He dug his hole deeper.

So he beats John Ruiz on points, then loses to the chump in a rematch, then ends the trilogy with a draw.

He beats Hasim Rahman by headbutting him, then loses to Chris Bryd and gets knocked the fuck out versus James "Lights Out" Toney. Time to retire, homie. But he fought on anyway.

Even at his best Holyfield wasn't that good. I don't see why he was such a great legend. You'll have to prove me otherwise to change my mind but looking back I don't see why he should rank so damn high.



Is Evander the all-time great heavyweight and warrior that idiots say he is?
You cannot change your vote after voting.
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Malik El Debarge Wright
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Zorro
Well, he fought in a great era. In fact he fought in the best era ever if you disregard the 70s which was boxing's golden era. To fight in the era of monsters like Tyson, Lewis, Bowe, and Mercer and become a 5 time heavyweight champion you have to be one of the best of all time.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Evolution
Malik, you're not the first to severely criticize my friend Evander Holyfield and you certainly won't be the last. But I can assure you that Evander is one of the best heavyweights of all time. I know that just from sparring with him.

Evander has speed, power, accuracy and brilliant countering skills. He can do it all; box or slug. And he's got one of the best chins ever. Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis and George Foreman couldn't knock him down, and he recovered well when he was hurt by Riddick Bowe and Bert Cooper. He's tough enough to beat anybody.

Evander has to be in your top 5. He's got a lot of heart. The man is a warrior in the ring and an even better friend.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Rosco
In reply to this post by Malik Wright
Malik Wright wrote



I just don't think so. Look at his resume. Wins the undisputed championship by knocking out fat Buster Douglas, struggles against old Holmes and Foreman, almost gets KO'd by Bert Cooper, ducks Razor Ruddock, loses the championship to Riddick Bowe.

Think thats bad? It gets worse.

Wins the title from Riddick on points (barely) then promptly loses it to Michael Moorer.

****Retires****

Comes back, redeems himself a little by beating Ray Mercer, then loses to Riddick Bowe (again), beats journeyman Bobby Czyz, then beats Mike Tyson by headbutting and clinching, tries the same tactics in the rematch and gets his ears snacked on for it.

Gets revenge against Michael Moorer (great performance) then receives a gift "draw" against Lennox Lewis. Lennox has to then fight him again to finally get the victory.

By this point Evander is past his best and people are calling for retirement, but wait a minute. He dug his hole deeper.

So he beats John Ruiz on points, then loses to the chump in a rematch, then ends the trilogy with a draw.

He beats Hasim Rahman by headbutting him, then loses to Chris Bryd and gets knocked the fuck out versus James "Lights Out" Toney. Time to retire, homie. But he fought on anyway.

Even at his best Holyfield wasn't that good. I don't see why he was such a great legend. You'll have to prove me otherwise to change my mind but looking back I don't see why he should rank so damn high.
If this doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZYFsOsfeL4
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Malik Wright
Evander was good but overrated. I don't have a problem omitting the losses to John Ruiz, Lennox Lewis and the others because he was past his prime there. But in his prime, he had a lot of trouble with Foreman and Holmes when they were in their 40s. He barely survived that knockdown against Cooper and the first time he fought a young, great, prime heavyweight (Riddick Bowe) he lost. And he did terrible against Michael Moorer the first time. All of this was during his prime.
Malik El Debarge Wright
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Shogun of Harlem
Malik Wright wrote
Evander was good but overrated. I don't have a problem omitting the losses to John Ruiz, Lennox Lewis and the others because he was past his prime there.
I was about to mention that. Bringing up his losses to Holyfield, Ruiz, Toney and all those others is the same as mentioning Ali's losses to Spinks and Holmes or Tyson's losses to Lennox and McBride. Evander was uneven in his prime so I agree with you there. I didn't know he ducked Razor Ruddock but it certainly looks that way now that I think about it. You've got big, scary Razor Ruddock around as a top ranked contender who had two wars with Mike Tyson, but instead you give title shots to Holmes and Foreman, both of whom are long past their best. This, coupled with the alleged steroid use, makes me lose a lot of respect for Evander. He's still a legend though.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Apollo
Banned User
In reply to this post by Evolution
Evolution wrote
Malik, you're not the first to severely criticize my friend Evander Holyfield and you certainly won't be the last. But I can assure you that Evander is one of the best heavyweights of all time. I know that just from sparring with him.

Evander has speed, power, accuracy and brilliant countering skills. He can do it all; box or slug. And he's got one of the best chins ever. Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis and George Foreman couldn't knock him down, and he recovered well when he was hurt by Riddick Bowe and Bert Cooper. He's tough enough to beat anybody.

Evander has to be in your top 5. He's got a lot of heart. The man is a warrior in the ring and an even better friend.
Can you really see him beating Ali and Holmes? I think stylewise they would horrible for Evander.

Also a lot of people gave Riddick Bowe all three fights, thus claiming that Evander just couldn't beat him. Too big, too strong, too skillful.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Evolution
Did I mention Ali and Holmes? No, I didn't. All I said was that Evander should be top 5, alongside Ali, Holmes and a few others.

Evander should have won against Bowe each time, but he fought the wrong fight the first time and was sick with Hepatitis A the third time.

Read this thread.

http://dugger-s-ranch.2299399.n4.nabble.com/Did-Riddick-Bowe-Really-Have-Evander-Holyfield-s-Number-tp4021860.html
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Apollo
Banned User
Evolution wrote
Did I mention Ali and Holmes? No, I didn't. All I said was that Evander should be top 5, alongside Ali, Holmes and a few others.

Evander should have won against Bowe each time, but he fought the wrong fight the first time and was sick with Hepatitis A the third time.

Read this thread.

http://dugger-s-ranch.2299399.n4.nabble.com/Did-Riddick-Bowe-Really-Have-Evander-Holyfield-s-Number-tp4021860.html
No you didnt, but you said he could beat anybody.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Evolution
You need to go back and re-read my post. I said Evander is "tough enough to beat anybody." I didn't say he could beat anybody. There's a difference.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

GatorPurify
I dunno. I definitely think him staying in the game so long hurt him.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Duggerman
Administrator
He's an all-time great for sure. Lots of heart and courage. He's a more modern Ezzard Charles. But he was too inconsistent during his prime to make the top ten. I'd probably have him somewhere between #11-14 of all time.

There's a lot of great fights that never happened. I wish Evander could have fought Bruno, Briggs, Ruddock and Tua. I'm confident that at his best he would have beat them but they'd be classics for sure.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Rosco
In reply to this post by Malik Wright
Malik Wright wrote



I just don't think so. Look at his resume. Wins the undisputed championship by knocking out fat Buster Douglas, struggles against old Holmes and Foreman, almost gets KO'd by Bert Cooper, ducks Razor Ruddock, loses the championship to Riddick Bowe.

Think thats bad? It gets worse.

Wins the title from Riddick on points (barely) then promptly loses it to Michael Moorer.

****Retires****

Comes back, redeems himself a little by beating Ray Mercer, then loses to Riddick Bowe (again), beats journeyman Bobby Czyz, then beats Mike Tyson by headbutting and clinching, tries the same tactics in the rematch and gets his ears snacked on for it.

Gets revenge against Michael Moorer (great performance) then receives a gift "draw" against Lennox Lewis. Lennox has to then fight him again to finally get the victory.

By this point Evander is past his best and people are calling for retirement, but wait a minute. He dug his hole deeper.

So he beats John Ruiz on points, then loses to the chump in a rematch, then ends the trilogy with a draw.

He beats Hasim Rahman by headbutting him, then loses to Chris Bryd and gets knocked the fuck out versus James "Lights Out" Toney. Time to retire, homie. But he fought on anyway.

Even at his best Holyfield wasn't that good. I don't see why he was such a great legend. You'll have to prove me otherwise to change my mind but looking back I don't see why he should rank so damn high.

I forgot about this thread. Malik you sure talk a lot of sh_t for a banned user. haha! But I do have a few disagreements. Holyfield didn't stuggle with old Foreman. He fought old Foreman the same way he would have fought young Foreman. And you know what? Using those tactics he would have actually had an easier time with young George and stopped him late. By moving and slugging at the right moments he would keep George off balance. George would not catch him often and when he does he would pay for it and Evander would punish him with counters. In the late rounds when George tires Evander would take him out just as Ali did.

As far as Holmes goes that fight was boring because they're both defensive counter punchers and in the fight they had Larry forced Evander to do most of the leading. Evander is actually good as an aggressor but in this fight he was cautious because he didn't want a wise veteran like Holmes to set him up. I think Holyfield is underrated on this forum by many. Maybe when he (finally) retires people will look back and see how talented he really was.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

precious
In reply to this post by Zorro
I agree with Zorro in that Holyfield competed in a great era of boxing. I may start an argument on the the validity of the 70's universally recognized as the golden era. I just dont see it, it was only for the fact 'The Greatest' was still competing' but objectiveley Frazier was all but finished, Norton was giving Ali a hard time & Foreman was demolishing Frazier & Norton in the early part of the 70's then faded into oblivion post Zaire. After that we have nothing up to the emergence of Holmes.
The excellent vid posted by Rosco hilights for me how destructive Evander could be especially in his early years & the fact he beat a still competitive Tyson twice must put him up there to be considered an ATG. The epic fights with Bowe demonstrate his heart as a fighter but as he got older he fell foul to the delusion he could perform miracles & like Ali continued to fight when he was clearly past it, picking up losses he never would have in his prime. I know little of the drugs allegations other than the opinions I have read on here so I'll leave it to those who know
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Friday The 13th...
November needs to be retitled "Evander Holyfield Month." So many of his classic fights took place this month. (Bowe 1, Tyson 1, Moorer 2, Lewis II, etc).
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Entaowed
Banned User
This post was updated on .
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Duggerman
Administrator
Yeah.  You see this post in the David Tua thread? Buster really let himself go.

49-0 wrote
^^You can say that again. David just gave up his career after losing to Ike Ibeabuchi. He didn't care how terrible he looked, in the ring or out. Its a frying shame he let himself go like that. 20 years from now he'll look like this

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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Evolution
Evander Holyfield was a fantastic boxer.

There really wasn't anything he couldn't do, but he preferred his offense, and preferred to charge hard and make it ugly. He liked to fight.

He was a stellar technician, though. Hard worker when he was motivated, never got out of shape, great guy to be around. I still say he was the best cruiserweight of all time.

Here is an article about his retirement and top ten fights.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/boxing/ex-heavyweight-king-evander-holyfield-officially-retire-hall-173012999--box.html
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Phantom Punch
He was ABSOLUTELY an all-time great! One of the best. So much heart. He's not any worse than other small guys like Frazier and Marciano who might have lost to Riddick Bowe too. I'd always pick Evander to whoop any version of Tyson.
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Re: Evander Holyfield is an all-time great heavyweight champion--Convince Me

Evolution
Phantom Punch wrote
 I'd always pick Evander to whoop any version of Tyson.
Me too.
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