Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

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Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

MAGUIRE
Who has the better legacy?
Who should rank higher as an all-time great?
You cannot change your vote after voting.
You have to vote before you can see the results.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Duggerman
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Frazier beat better competition in his prime. Other than Norton, Frazier and Chuvalo, Foreman didn't beat anyone of note during his first career.

Frazier only lost to Ali and Foreman. He whooped everyone else. He has the better resume overall. The win over Ali crowns it.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Urban Legend
Duggerman wrote
Frazier beat better competition in his prime. Other than Norton, Frazier and Chuvalo, Foreman didn't beat anyone of note during his first career.

Frazier only lost to Ali and Foreman. He whooped everyone else. He has the better resume overall. The win over Ali crowns it.
Agreed, my friend. If Foreman had beaten Ali in Zaire then it might even things out a bit. I do think overall that Foreman fought better competition than Frazier if you combine both of his ring careers, but the problem is that he lost some key fights during his comeback, like against Morrison and Holyfield. Joe, like you said, rolled over everyone and only lost to Ali and Foreman.

This is a good topic. Most would just automatically give Foreman a ranking over Joe because of what happened when they fought. But legacy-wise Joe had more quality wins and did better overall.

I think an even better question would be trying to rank Frazier and Marciano. That's a tough one because Rocky has a perfect record but didn't fight Joe's competition. Joe fought better competition than Rocky. He lost to two opponents but he also has that shining win over prime Muhammad Ali. What's better? Retiring undefeated against overall weak competition or dominating great competition but losing four fights?
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Zombies Ate Me
Urban Legend wrote
What's better? Retiring undefeated against overall weak competition or dominating great competition but losing four fights?
To give Joe a fair shake he should get the nod considered those four losses were to two fellow all-time greats. No shame in that. Even if Marciano had lost a fight; say he had lost to Ezzard Charles in the rematch. Let's say the ref stopped the fight because of the nose cut. I don't think it would hurt Rocky's standing in a huge way because Ezzard Charles was one hell of a fighter. He was easily one of the best light heavyweights of all time, probably the best.

Regarding Foreman and Frazier it's really close. But let's be real. Foreman would have smoked Joe's competition too. Bonavena, Quarry, Mathis, Ellis, and all those guys. None of them survive prime Foreman and he would likely stop them in a quicker amount of time than Joe did. I say Foreman has the better legacy and it's not just because of his impact in the '70s but because he came back to win the title at 45. Joe Frazier could never do that.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Zorro
Zombies Ate Me wrote
Regarding Foreman and Frazier it's really close. But let's be real. Foreman would have smoked Joe's competition too. Bonavena, Quarry, Mathis, Ellis, and all those guys. None of them survive prime Foreman and he would likely stop them in a quicker amount of time than Joe did. I say Foreman has the better legacy and it's not just because of his impact in the '70s but because he came back to win the title at 45. Joe Frazier could never do that.
Good post. But Frazier has that brilliant win over a prime 29 year-old Muhammad Ali. That's his legacy, winning the fight of the century. He should have retired after that fight. Things began to slowly go downhill for him afterward.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Alucard
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Do not agree... Foreman by far, not even close, for resume/competition, already for what he did in the 70s... Then the 90s run as an old man, who in my opinion sealed his greatness and confirmed to me that he was indeed the best fighter of the 70s... Frazier has that great win on Ali, could/should have been two or three, Ali never beat him clearly, just like Norton, but overall Foreman takes it, just with Norton, Lyle and demolishing Frazier himself two times...
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Urban Legend
Urban Legend wrote
But legacy-wise Joe had more quality wins and did better overall.
I agree with that. And Joe did pretty well when fighting long past his prime years. Fighters like Joe get washed up pretty early, but even as he gradually lost his skills as the '70s went along, Joe was still beating everyone whose last name was not Foreman or Ali.

And let's not forget that Manilla was a damn close one. Ali wanted to quit.

Foreman, on the other hand, was a big guy with frightening power. Naturally he was still a threat, even in his '40s. George had a great comeback, and I don't think Joe could have come back and won a title at 45 years old like George did.

But overall Joe's career was better. Short but sweet.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Zombies Ate Me
In reply to this post by Alucard
Alucard wrote
Foreman by far, not even close, for resume/competition, already for what he did in the 70s... Then the 90s run as an old man, who in my opinion sealed his greatness and confirmed to me that he was indeed the best fighter of the 70s...
I disagree that Foreman was the best fighter of the '70s. Muhammad Ali still did damn well despite not being at his best anymore. Ali was the best of the '70s. I'd put Foreman at #2.

Joe Frazier was nearing the end of his peak during the early '70s, and Larry Holmes was reaching his peak during the late '70s. Joe started the decade with a BANG knocking out Bob Foster, and Larry ended the decade boring the hell out of people.

Overall Muhammad did the best of anyone in that decade though.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Duggerman
Administrator
Zombies Ate Me wrote

I disagree that Foreman was the best fighter of the '70s. Muhammad Ali still did damn well despite not being at his best anymore. Ali was the best of the '70s. I'd put Foreman at #2.

Joe Frazier was nearing the end of his peak during the early '70s, and Larry Holmes was reaching his peak during the late '70s. Joe started the decade with a BANG knocking out Bob Foster, and Larry ended the decade boring the hell out of people.

Overall Muhammad did the best of anyone in that decade though.
Larry may not have been exciting, but he was the man as the decade drew to a close. It's tough to say who (under Ali) was the best of the '70s because Foreman only had a short stint of impressive greatness ('73-74) and was gone by '77. Norton was good, but never the best. Joe was champ early on but wasn't the same after Manilla, and Larry (as I said earlier) rose to greatness late in the decade. Ali was the only guy that was impressive throughout, really.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Will69
This is one of those extremely subjective discussions.  Because of Foreman's greatly respected performance in the 90s, and being more recent, he is remembered in a bright spotlight (also due to his big popularity in the 90s).  It would be hard for Fraizer to shine in the 60s with Ali in the spotlight, so Fraizer is remembered less, despite beating Ali in '71.  Also, Foreman's style was exciting to watch.  He wasn't afraid of anyone and his knock-out power was frightening.  Everyone loves these kind of fighters.  (I've re-watched the Foreman-Moorer fight at least half a dozen times in slow motion, and it's still surprising that Foreman's short right koed Moorer).  Also, the way Foreman obliterated Fraizer in two of his fights in the 70s kind of cements the answer.  I say this:  Fraizer had the better resume and longevity, academically.  Foreman steals first place though because of his second career and for the number of times he put Fraizer on the canvas.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Rosco
I'm honestly surprised to see Foreman losing this poll. He might have lost more fights than Frazier but he had the overall longer and more impressive career. He also won the title twice, something Frazier failed to do.

Speaking of that, I am a Frazier fan. But he was not a good heavyweight champion. He looked great in the '60s during Ali's absence but once he finally won the title he only defended it against no-names like Terry Daniels and Ron Stander. He successfully defended the title against Ali, but was dethroned by Foreman just a few years after winning the belt.
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Joe Kingman
Administrator
Let's see. George Foreman.

Oldest heavyweight champion.

Two-time lineal heavyweight champion

He fought better competition than Joe overall, and bounced him around quite easily whenever they fought.

Of course Big George ranks higher.

-Joe Kingman
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Re: Foreman or Frazier. Who ranks higher?

Big Red
George ranks higher. He accomplished more and destroyed Joe head to head. Twice.