Foreman v. Frazier

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Foreman v. Frazier

Evolution
Frazier was a 3-1 favorite. Most sportswriters picked Frazier to wear him down and stop him in the middle rounds. Some wrote that it would be good experience for Foreman in a future title challenge. Only a few, notably Howard Cosell, said "I'm afraid - that Foreman might kill him." Based on past performances, Frazier was rightfully the favorite. Big, relatively slow-moving men had been his cup of tea. The expectation was that following the Daniels and Stander bouts, Frazier was starting to gear up for the long anticipated rematch with Ali, and Foreman would be the perfect opponent - highly rated, yet still green and made to order for Joe.

I watched Frazier-Foreman I on closed circuit TV at a theatre. Joe Louis picked Foreman to win, saying that Foreman was a "much better puncher" than Frazier, to the shock of the color commentators. The pre-fight staredowns drew huge reactions from the crowd, as did the first knockdown. My first thought was that Joe will get up, get to work, and win. The way he went down from the second knockdown it appeared that he was down for the count. I was hoping that after the minute's rest that he would be recovered, but that was not to be.

Boxing was really turned upside down from this result. Joe Frazier, who had appeared to be the undefeated, invincible champion, was now completely dismissed as washed-up with calls for him to retire. The Ali-Frazier rematch was written off, and even moreso after Ali lost to Norton some two months later. Foreman looked very impressive and imposing in winning the title. Ali was considered a viable threat until he lost to Norton, and Foreman was then genuinely regarded as the best heavy around. After Ali's two bouts with Norton and Foreman's destruction of Norton, Foreman was thought invincible. More than that, it was feared that he might actually kill other fighters in the ring.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Duggerman
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Evolution wrote
 Joe Louis picked Foreman to win, saying that Foreman was a "much better puncher" than Frazier, to the shock of the color commentators.
Yep. Joe Louis was one of the few to predict a victory for Big George. Being an outstanding former fighter and ring technician himself, Louis knew how this one would play out.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

49-0
I think George was just indestructable to left hooks. He ate some hard left hooks from Frazier, Holyfield and Morrison but they rarely bothered him in the slightest. But right hands put George down several times. The Duggerman posted this gif in another thread. This is the only time I've seen George hurt by a left hook.

<br />GIFSoup
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by Duggerman

Evolution wrote
 Joe Louis picked Foreman to win, saying that Foreman was a "much better puncher" than Frazier, to the shock of the color commentators.
See? This relates to what I was saying in the Frazier-Louis thread. Joe Louis knows how to fight Joe Frazier. He knew that Frazier was going to swarm George which isn't a smart thing to do. You don't stand in front of a puncher. Joe Louis knew this.

George's right uppercut is what hurt Frazier the most...a punch that was an important one in Louis' bag of tricks.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Duggerman
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Urban Legend wrote
See? This relates to what I was saying in the Frazier-Louis thread. Joe Louis knows how to fight Joe Frazier. He knew that Frazier was going to swarm George which isn't a smart thing to do. You don't stand in front of a puncher. Joe Louis knew this.

George's right uppercut is what hurt Frazier the most...a punch that was an important one in Louis' bag of tricks.
Frazier's style was to get right in your face and wreck shop. He said himself that he was an idiot for repeatedly getting in Foreman's grill. I think Jack Dempsey could knock out or hurt Foreman because Dempsey timed his assaults. He only attacked when he saw an opening.

I think Foreman would destroy Frazier and Marciano any day of the week because they would position themselves right in front of him. Mike Tyson would do the same but Tyson had the speed and power to slip something past Foreman on the inside.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Zorro
Man oh man. This takes me back. I thought Joe Frazier was invincible. He destroyed everyone in the heavyweight division in the 60s and topped things off by beating Muhammad Ali. My dad used to call Joe a "black Rocky Marciano" and things were certainly looking that way as Joe was undefeated. I didn't even know who George Foreman was before he fought Joe Frazier. lol. I had seen him briefly and heard the name but never saw him fight or think anything of him.

Joe won the staredown. lol.

Duggerman wrote
You're right, Underdog. The Frazier scowl doesn't translate into the fight itself. Look at how mean Frazier looked at Big George, only to be destroyed moments later..

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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Evan Fields
In reply to this post by Urban Legend
Urban Legend wrote
Evolution wrote
 Joe Louis picked Foreman to win, saying that Foreman was a "much better puncher" than Frazier, to the shock of the color commentators.
See? This relates to what I was saying in the Frazier-Louis thread. Joe Louis knows how to fight Joe Frazier. He knew that Frazier was going to swarm George which isn't a smart thing to do. You don't stand in front of a puncher. Joe Louis knew this.

George's right uppercut is what hurt Frazier the most...a punch that was an important one in Louis' bag of tricks.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

49-0
George had been knocking out tomato cans before taking on Joe Frazier. The only good fighter Foreman had previously fought was George Chuvalo.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Duggerman
Administrator
"One of these days I'm going to come out with a Frazier grill and break it over his head."

-Joe Frazier (on George Foreman)

Say Frazier had a chin like David Tua and the fight went longer than it did. By round 6 Big George would be tired and Joe would be smokin. That's when Big George is in serious trouble and getting knocked out. Foreman's lucky he got rid of Frazier early.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Bert Sugar
George used Joe like a bouncing ball. If you notice, Joe made himself even smaller. He was fighting out of a little squat. George Foreman was just too powerful. "DOWN GOES FREYSHA!! DOWN GOES FREYSHA!!"
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Duggerman
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Hit Em' Hard
Duggerman wrote
With an opening like that, Mike Tyson would have landed a crushing right hook to the body and then come up the middle with a vicious uppercut. Too bad Foreman was primarily a left hooker.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Rosco
You mean Frazier?
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Friday The 13th...
In reply to this post by Evolution
Evolution wrote
Frazier was a 3-1 favorite. Most sportswriters picked Frazier to wear him down and stop him in the middle rounds. Some wrote that it would be good experience for Foreman in a future title challenge. Only a few, notably Howard Cosell, said "I'm afraid - that Foreman might kill him." Based on past performances, Frazier was rightfully the favorite. Big, relatively slow-moving men had been his cup of tea. The expectation was that following the Daniels and Stander bouts, Frazier was starting to gear up for the long anticipated rematch with Ali, and Foreman would be the perfect opponent - highly rated, yet still green and made to order for Joe.

I watched Frazier-Foreman I on closed circuit TV at a theatre. Joe Louis picked Foreman to win, saying that Foreman was a "much better puncher" than Frazier, to the shock of the color commentators. The pre-fight staredowns drew huge reactions from the crowd, as did the first knockdown. My first thought was that Joe will get up, get to work, and win. The way he went down from the second knockdown it appeared that he was down for the count. I was hoping that after the minute's rest that he would be recovered, but that was not to be.

Boxing was really turned upside down from this result. Joe Frazier, who had appeared to be the undefeated, invincible champion, was now completely dismissed as washed-up with calls for him to retire. The Ali-Frazier rematch was written off, and even moreso after Ali lost to Norton some two months later. Foreman looked very impressive and imposing in winning the title. Ali was considered a viable threat until he lost to Norton, and Foreman was then genuinely regarded as the best heavy around. After Ali's two bouts with Norton and Foreman's destruction of Norton, Foreman was thought invincible. More than that, it was feared that he might actually kill other fighters in the ring.
Well said. I have a question for you or anyone else who has an answer. Was Joe still considered in his prime for this fight with George Foreman? Its obvious he was past his best days in the rematch but Joe looked good to me in 1973. He was crouching and hooking as good as he always did. But George said that if they'd fought two years earlier the result would have been different. Whaddaya think?
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Evolution
Man_Eater wrote
Well said. I have a question for you or anyone else who has an answer. Was Joe still considered in his prime for this fight with George Foreman? Its obvious he was past his best days in the rematch but Joe looked good to me in 1973. He was crouching and hooking as good as he always did. But George said that if they'd fought two years earlier the result would have been different. Whaddaya think?
Smoke was still in his prime against Big George but he wasn't what he had been before 1971.

George would always be too powerful for Smoke but the referee played a part in how this fight played out.  George did a lot of shoving to keep Smoke from getting close and landing his hook. In prizefighting, a referee should do everything he can to let the fighters decide the outcome, and this used to be the standard.

Probably explains it. Marciano, Tyson, Holyfield, Ali, etc. got away with absolute murder in some of their fights. Part of the game.

I look at it this way. Every time George shoves, he does it with both hands. Every target on his body is wide open. Frazier could have punched, allowed himself to be corralled. His own fault, Alex Stewart used the shoves for free shots.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Entaowed
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Sivul
What does everyone think of the rematch? Joe did a lot better and it was cool to see him "fight like Ali" with the jabbing and skipping around the ring strategy. Let's say George never landed that knockout blow in the 5th. Would Joe have won a decision?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmvPRP6NlA
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Entaowed
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

BAD INTENTIONS
^^I agree with your post.....Frazier was surviving but not doing anything but running and fighting in spurts.
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Re: Foreman v. Frazier

Shane
In reply to this post by Sivul
Sivul wrote
What does everyone think of the rematch? Joe did a lot better and it was cool to see him "fight like Ali" with the jabbing and skipping around the ring strategy. Let's say George never landed that knockout blow in the 5th. Would Joe have won a decision?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NmvPRP6NlA
That fight is a hard one to score because Frazier landed some big hooks but they were far and few inbetween. Foreman rarely caught Joe flush because Joe didn't stay in front of him. But if Joe hadn't gotten struck out I think he would have won an odd decision. Perhaps a split decision? Hard fight to judge, depends on what you're looking for. Neither guy was in total control.
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