If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
20 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

George Jefferson
....how would this affect his legacy? Would you still consider him an all-time great?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Bugs
Gene Tunney and Riddick Bowe each had one lone loss on their records. Riddick is considered a beast head to head (at least in the first Holyfield fight) while Gene Tunney is an all-time great but not on Rocky's level. A loss would drop Rocky's standings but he'd probably still be top ten.
Eh....What's Up, Doc?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Maximillian
Bugs wrote
Gene Tunney and Riddick Bowe each had one lone loss on their records. Riddick is considered a beast head to head (at least in the first Holyfield fight) while Gene Tunney is an all-time great but not on Rocky's level. A loss would drop Rocky's standings but he'd probably still be top ten.
Right on, and are Tunney and Bowe discussed among historians as much as Marciano? No. Rocky's entire legacy is his undefeated record. It's the only thing that puts him in the top ten. If he'd lost a fight, I doubt he'd make the top ten at all.

GIFSoup
"Take that, Big George!! I'mma BAAAD MAAN!! I shook up the world!!! I'm pretty!!!!"
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Duggerman
Administrator
Some good thoughts here. What I find interesting is that Rocky wasn't generally considered a top five all-time great when he was fighting. The historians used to rank him under guys like Dempsey, Louis, Johnson, Jeffries, etc. Rocky was usually found at the bottom of top ten lists, usually anywhere from 7-10.

But as the decades went by,(particularly after the 1960s) Rocky's legacy increased and people starting ranking him much higher. Given the fact that so many guys won the title after Rocky that would most likely beat him (Liston, Tyson, Foreman, Lewis, Frazier, Ali, etc) you'd think his ranking would stay the same or drop from the top ten altogther. Instead, it only rose higher.

Going undefeated in any era is a huge accomplishment but I do admit that if Rocky suffered a loss or two, his star would not shine as bright.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

George Jefferson
Good points about Riddick Bowe and Gene Tunney. Michael Spinks only had one loss as a professional too. And that was his fight against Mike Tyson.

My counter to that opinion is this one: Who did Riddick Bowe fight of major signifiance? He was KO'd in two rounds by Lennox Lewis as an amatur and ducked him in the pros. He beat Holyfield 2x but thats because Holyfield fought Bowe's fight the first time and fought with Hepatitis A the third time. Holyfield beat him straight up in the rematch when he wasn't sick and stuck to his usual fight plan. Bowe was losing to Andrew Golota in two fights and only won because Andrew liked to touch Riddick's balls repeatedly.

Gene Tunnney was a good heavyweight...dare say he was a miniature Ali or Chris Bryd type. His biggest wins were over a fading Jack Dempsey and he would have lost the rematch if not for the long count. All things fair, he should have went 1-1 with OLD Jack Dempsey. Prime Dempsey knocks him out in 1 or 2 rounds no matter how much Gene runs.

Michael Spinks didn't really beat anybody special either. The judges won the Larry Holmes fights for him.

Now let's look at Rocky. Say he fought on a bit longer and suffered a loss. He still has a great body of work. Two wins over Walcott and Charles (the best heavyweights around at that time) a great swan song by knocking out Archie Moore who went on to win the light heavyweight title again, and other big wins over Roland LaStarza, Harry Matthews and Joe Louis. Most fighters lose before their 49th fight, so if Rocky fought a little too long and suffered a loss, it wouldn't hurt ATG his standing much in my book.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Urban Legend
George Jefferson wrote
Now let's look at Rocky. Say he fought on a bit longer and suffered a loss. He still has a great body of work. Two wins over Walcott and Charles (the best heavyweights around at that time) a great swan song by knocking out Archie Moore who went on to win the light heavyweight title again, and other big wins over Roland LaStarza, Harry Matthews and Joe Louis. Most fighters lose before their 49th fight, so if Rocky fought a little too long and suffered a loss, it wouldn't hurt ATG his standing much in my book.
<br />GIFSoup
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

49-0
As much as I love Rocky, his undefeated status is what keeps us talking about him. I still say he was the best heavweight ever, considering his was undersized with a big punch and did a lot despite his short arms and other limitations. Its debatable if he'd still be top ten if he took a loss. But to be honest I don't see anyone beating him. He always found a way to knock you out. That's part of his mystique.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

George Jefferson
In reply to this post by Urban Legend
Urban Legend wrote
<br />GIFSoup
Much easier to post a silly gif than to actually respond to my post, isn't it?

Rocky didn't have a gift decision. In the first fight with Roland LaStarza, Rocky accidently hit him low which cost him some points and made it a closer fight. Rocky was the best because he beat everyone in his era head to head.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Rosco
In reply to this post by George Jefferson
George Jefferson wrote
....how would this affect his legacy? Would you still consider him an all-time great?
I don't consider Rocky an ATG at all.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Entaowed
Banned User
This post was updated on .
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Rosco
Dempsey was just better than Rocky. He proved his chin (took punches from Willard,,,Firpo,,, and other giants) he didn't cut as easy as Rocky and he had faster hands. Jack proved himself as the better fighter. If they swapped eras Jack would beat everyone Rocky faced and do it quicker and easier. No way does Jack take nine rounds to knock out Don Cockell and Archie Moore.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Entaowed
Banned User
This post was updated on .
CONTENTS DELETED
The author has deleted this message.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Duggerman
Administrator
Take a look at this.         http://coxscorner.tripod.com/rocky.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

precious
In reply to this post by George Jefferson
Rocky's record is what makes him unique in the annals of boxing history so for me he deserves to be considered an ATG. Of course a loss would affect his placement but who is to say Rocky would not have won a rematch, like Ali & Louis did. Imagine if Ali had lost to Frazier or Norton in rematches he would most certainly not be considered the greatest.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Shogun of Harlem
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
You can make a good case there Rosco.  He did have faster hands, & Rocky cut easier.  But I do not know if he was better.  Besides frittering away his prime, those giants did not necessarily have te biggest punches.  Rocky did more, & it is hard to say another ATG would do definitely falter against no one in all those fights.  And Rocky had a superb KO %: Jack's would be at best about as good I think.  Maybe he gets Cockell earlier-though Cockell was tough to bring down-but maybe he does not beat every slick boxer.

And Rocky had better endurance, & fought from tricky angles.  I can see a case for either of them, but by no means do I see Dempsey as clearly better.
Good thoughts. I see them both about the same--small heavyweights with a big wallop.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

BAD INTENTIONS
In reply to this post by George Jefferson
George Jefferson wrote
 Bowe was losing to Andrew Golota in two fights and only won because Andrew liked to touch Riddick's balls repeatedly.
You wrong for that! lol. Its true but the way you worded it. lol.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Zorro
In reply to this post by precious
precious wrote
Rocky's record is what makes him unique in the annals of boxing history so for me he deserves to be considered an ATG. Of course a loss would affect his placement but who is to say Rocky would not have won a rematch, like Ali & Louis did. Imagine if Ali had lost to Frazier or Norton in rematches he would most certainly not be considered the greatest.
Well said. Everyone strives to be undefeated but no one pulled it off except The Rock. He's known for not losing and if his record was broken, he wouldn't be awarded so much praise. Still a great heavyweight though. Great fighter.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Duggerman
Administrator
I also think he depends on how he'd lose. An example being Foreman losing to Briggs in his last fight. We all know Foreman really won that fight. That loss didn't hurt George's legacy one bit. He accomplished so much before that fight anyway, and we can sympathize with him over that loss. If Rocky lost a decision because of biased judges as Foreman did, I don't think it'd hurt his standing as much but it would still hurt having an official loss in the record books. If Rocky were to get brutally knocked out, that would hurt his legacy far worse.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a loss would hurt his legacy no matter what. But how much? It depends on how he lost the fight.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Phantom Punch
If he lost he'd just become another overlooked boxer from that era, along with Walcott, Moore and Charles. He wouldn't be featured in TV shows hosted by Bert Sugar. Then again, if Bert was so high on Gene Tunney and Ezzard Charles, I don't see why he wouldnt be high on Rocky if he lost a fight.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: If Rocky Marciano lost a fight...

Duggerman
Administrator
Yeah. 49-1 or 50-1 is still a damn good record. BUT it’s the magic of that undefeated status that keeps us talking about The Rock. He’s the stuff of fables now...the guy who never lost a fight.