Throw skills, combinations, defense, and crap like that out the window. That isn't happening here. These guys skill sets are based on working around and countering over jabs against bigger men, but this will be a phone booth fight, where Joe was more at home than Tyson. Mike liked to get off a combination on the inside, hold or accept his opponent's clinch, and reset. But not Fraizer, he stayed in his man's chest, and kept working, not unlike 96 Holyfield.
Mike will have early success, probably pushing Joe into the ropes like Quarry, maybe squeezing off a few combos, but by the end of the night, Tyson will be frustrated with his back to the ropes, wandering what he got himself into.
Mike liked to get off a combination on the inside, hold or accept his opponent's clinch, and reset. But not Fraizer, he stayed in his man's chest, and kept working, not unlike 96 Holyfield.
Ironically, I once asked Frazier which fighters would give him trouble other than Foreman, and he told me that Tyson might put up a good fight, but would get knocked out in round 3.
It's true that Tyson worked more as a counter-puncher. Once he had that perfect opening, he's launch a deadly combination of punches or destroy you with one perfectly timed counter. He wasn't an aggressive, stay-in-your-face pressure fighter like Frazier. Tyson either waited for you to make a mistake or scared you into making one.
But Frazier was a slow starter, while Tyson was at his best in the opening rounds. Frazier was wobbled and hurt by several fighters not in the league of Tyson. (Manuel Ramos, Ron Stander, etc) Frazier would put himself right in front of Tyson and be wide open for his uppercut, just as his son Marvis was. Tyson was just too fast and explosive for Smokin Joe.
The major chance for Frazier is if he finds out that he can back Tyson up. Then it gets very interesting. The likes of Chuvalo and Frazier noted that Tyson was not a very adept infighter. It may not have been a "prime" Tyson but chubby Buster Mathis Jr. backed him up to the ropes and did decent for a while by bobbing & weaving, messing up Tyson's rhythm and accuracy. Frazier was no Buster Mathis Jr. He was 500 times better.
Muhammad Ali attempted an uppercut on Joe Frazier and found himself on the canvas. The uppercut only worked for George Foreman because he didn't punch down, he just swung his arms like a mummified gorilla.
Sorry, but Tyson is going to struggle to get that body punch-uppercut combination off against a pushing, bobbing fighter of the same size, looking to take his head off with a left hook first chance he gets. Just watch the guy.
Joe Frazier had too much heart. We're talking about Tyson's combinations, but what about Joe's? How would Tyson react when Joe hits him with a double left hook to the body and the head? Frazier always got off the canvas to win fights. I can't say the same thing about Mike Tyson....
I mean really, Tyson was more skillful than Frazier when it came to working around bigger men's jabs. Frazier was much more work-rate orientated than Tyson's fluid purposeful movements.
But at close range where this bout would be fought, its a dog fight, and Frazier was more comfortable and experienced in that situation. I don't think Tyson is more skillful fighter in that situation. And unless Frazier suddenly adpots a high guard and leans over Mike, that body uppercut combo isn't going to be a big factor.
As said, this is going to be shoulder to shoulder, head to head, no clinching, duck, hook, push, duck, hook, duck, push going both ways. I favor Frazier in this type of ugly fight, especially if it moves out of the early rounds, no disrespect to Mike.
The likes of Chuvalo and Frazier noted that Tyson was not a very adept infighter.
Tyson is so overrated that the siht isn't funny anymore, yo. Joe Frazier was a real fighter. Hell, a warrior. He liked to fight. He lived to fight. He would get right in Mike's face and bang him hard in the body. Tyson could not fight inside. He could only dazzle you with combinations. If you survived it, he'd wait for the next opportunity or let you clinch him.
The body talks. Tyson did not take body punches well. Holyfield shook him with some body shots and it discouraged him. Tyson would quit after getting hit repeatedly with left hooks to the head and the body. I think Joe Frazier would beat David Tua, too. Anyone see how Chris Bryd shut him down with body punches. And Bryd doesn't even hit that hard!! Imagine how Joe Frazier would wreck these guys. Destroying the body was his specialty.
Joe Frazier is my favorite boxer. But I'm afraid that he wouldn't make it to the third round with Mike Tyson.
There have been some good points made in this thread. Tyson's body punch and uppercut combo is more effective when attacking someone who towers over him. (He should have used it on Lennox Lewis) but in close quarters, Joe would be suspectable to Tyson's uppercut just as his son Marvis was. Tyson said after the fight that he didn't plan on bombing out Marvis like that but "he saw the opportunity and it looked too good." Mike Tyson also had a faster and harder left hook than Frazier, so if Frazier wanted to trade left hooks with Tyson, he isn't going to win.
I think Joe Frazier would beat David Tua, too. Anyone see how Chris Bryd shut him down with body punches. And Bryd doesn't even hit that hard!! Imagine how Joe Frazier would wreck these guys. Destroying the body was his specialty.
Chris Byrd caught Tua when he was a fat lazy bum. If they had fought 5 years before, Tua would have knocked him out easily. Joe Frazier would certainly beat Tua anytime after 1997. As for Tyson, Frazier would find himself brutally destroyed before he ever found his rhythm. However, he might do well against Tyson from 1995 onwards, though. As Zorro said earlier, if Buster Mathis Jr and Holyfield could force Mike to fight off the backfoot, Frazier would have no problem doing so. He would wreck that version of Mike Tyson, especially since he lost confidence and stamina as the fight progressed.
Throw skills, combinations, defense, and crap like that out the window. By the end of the night, Tyson will be frustrated with his back to the ropes, wandering what he got himself into.
You're only saying to throw combinations and defense out of the window because you know Mike was superior in those categories. This fight ends with Joe on the floor bleeding from the mouth, wondering what the hell hit him. He doesn't make it three rounds. Sorry.
I agree with the Duggerman. And Frazier is my favorite fighter of all times. But I don't see him lasting more than 4-5 rounds with a prime Mike Tyson. Tyson was much faster and stronger than Frazier, and those famous Tyson combos would be too much for Frazier. Unfortunately for Joe it takes him about 3-5 rounds to start "Smokin." By then Tyson would of put a wreck on Joe.
However, he might do well against Tyson from 1995 onwards, though. As Zorro said earlier, if Buster Mathis Jr and Holyfield could force Mike to fight off the backfoot, Frazier would have no problem doing so. He would wreck that version of Mike Tyson, especially since he lost confidence and stamina as the fight progressed.
Good point. The 29 year-old Joe Frazier would knock out the 29 year-old Mike Tyson. But if they had collided during their respective primes, Joe Frazier is getting brutally KO'd and likely before the third round.
Yes. There's no way that Bonecrusher Smith would survive going the distance with Joe Frazier the way he did with Mike. Mike "agreed" to clinch with taller opponents. Not Joe. He kept a high work rate inside, and that would make the difference here.
Frazier was the better fighter on the inside, but Tyson had a more sensational way of getting inside. His combinations were more than lethal. I just don't see Frazier surviving against Iron Mike in his prime. The uppercut would do it.
No doubt Frazier has trouble early on. He'd probably get knocked down a few times, but he'd get up and get right back in Mike Tyson's face. He would stop him late in the fight.
No. Just no.
Tyson was a far more accurate, sharper and quicker puncher than George Foreman. Making things worse is that he often punched in combinations. Joe would not see Mike's punches coming!! Joe would be out cold. Tyson would hurt Joe worse than George did. This is coming from Joe Frazier's biggest fan, btw.
The way I see it is, Tyson needed range to jump into combinations. Tyson did little on the inside except clinch and throw a few lousy shots to the body. Inside is where this fight would be fought and Tyson would have no room to breath here, no room to get his combinations off and when Joe starts Smokin' then he ain't gonna be jokin' it's no secret Tysons stamina wasn't the best and it's also not a secret Smokin' Joe's is one of the best. Body shots + poor stamina = good night.
Saying this I do see the first round being worrying for Joe. Almost every Frazier fight I have watched he gets hit with a few solid shots early. It's easy to imagine Tyson landing these then that would be that but, I think the Frazier of the Ali fight would manage to get round this, although it would be torrid and he most likely would be knocked down.
Peak Tyson's head movement wouldn't be much help with Frazier unloading those hooks to the body. Joe's cross armed defense was a reasonably effective deterrent against the uppercuts of anybody not named Foreman, and he'd be under Mike's crosses. Smoke didn't particularly like taking on opponents his own size, but he did it well with some frequency.
No question who has the heart and stamina in this one. (Can't help comparing McBride-Tyson to Frazier-Cummings here.)