Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

precious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvGFHabnn0w 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK2hGJvdwx8

Duggerman This is a really funny 2 part interview of Ali, Holmes & Norton promoting 'Champions Forever'. Holmes said in this clip that all 3 would beat Tyson but Frazier defended Tyson describing him as a marksman. I think a young Tyson was just that & has bigger arsenal of punches than Frazier, as well as a fast starter from the first bell where Joe would be vulnerable. I admire Joe's determination & heart but I think Tyson would win this one.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
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I've seen that before. Thanks for posting! I don't think Larry likes Tyson much because he lost to him. You seen this? Short but sweet...Larry talking about Mike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37RmojZVF4c&feature=relmfu

Nice dog, btw. Is it yours? I have a black lab named Joe Frazier. You'll see him in the "My top 5 knockouts thread."
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

precious
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Yes his name was Bob a German Shepherd, great big softy, he died a couple of years ago. I really like Black Labradors, they are becoming nearly as popular as their golden lab counterparts here in England. Smokin Joe looks like he's trying to get in on you're act in the video lol
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

precious
In reply to this post by Entaowed
I agree, I still see Holmes losing in the same way to a young Tyson because he wouldn't have let him of the hook like Shavers did, he was a great finisher.  
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

It's Dale
I decided to watch both of them in action earlier tonight. I viewed one complete round, and four quick kayos. The first clip was the opening three minutes of Frazier/Quarry I. The second and third replays were Tyson's rapid demolitions of Mike Spinks, and Frazier's kid Marvis. Finally, Smokin' Joe's one round 1969 blowout of Dave Zyglewicz, where Joe drops Ziggy 13 seconds after the opening bell with his sixth hook of the contest.

Tyson would be in a world of trouble here. Mike wouldn't be facing an intimidated opponent in Smoke, and he couldn't bank on pre FOTC Frazier getting off to a slow start. Jimmy Ellis did well for two and a half rounds by staying the hell away from Joe, hardly Tyson's style.

If Mike did manage to hurt Joe, Smoke wouldn't stop coming, wouldn't stop getting up if Tyson did manage to floor him for an instant. For every right uppercut Mike attempted, Joe would produce three economically devastating hooks to Mike's head and body. Tyson's overhand right would simply go sailing over Joe's bobbing head. No matter how good Mike's head movement was, that wouldn't prevent Joe from nailing him downstairs. Joe would also be a lot more relaxed than Mike. It helped Tyson that Spinks was tense. Joe wouldn't be wrapped so tight.

Quarry started fast against Joe, in their title fight following the Zyglewicz massacre, pouring in nearly a hundred punches in that opening round, and Jerry could hit. Over 50 of Jerry's hooks went downstairs. But Joe returned fire, with over 60 of his own shots in that opening frame. After just two rounds, Jerry was already tiring. With Ziggy, Joe would take a little step back, and let fly with that hook.

Tyson didn't have the awesome shoving strength of a Foreman, and we're not talking about a post FOTC Frazier here. Frazier could very definitely get out of the opening rounds against Mike, then watch out! Unlike Joe, once Tyson went down, he wouldn't be able to beat the count.

Frazier KO 13 Tyson
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Apollo
Banned User
In reply to this post by precious
precious wrote
I agree, I still see Holmes losing in the same way to a young Tyson because he wouldn't have let him of the hook like Shavers did, he was a great finisher.
It's funny you mention that. A lot of people criticize Mike for not beating anyone great, but I always felt the outcome against any version of Holmes would've been the same. It just looked as if Tyson was bad match up for Holmes.

Note that Holmes gave Evander a razor close fight 2 years AFTER getting knocked out by Mike.
Defeating Ray Mercer 4 years AFTER getting knocked out by Mike. (the same Mercer who gave Lennox a razor close fight in 1996)
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Alexander
In reply to this post by Shane
Shane wrote
No. Just no.

Tyson was a far more accurate, sharper and quicker puncher than George Foreman. Making things worse is that he often punched in combinations. Joe would not see Mike's punches coming!! Joe would be out cold. Tyson would hurt Joe worse than George did. This is coming from Joe Frazier's biggest fan, btw.
I don't think that this would be a Foreman style blowout.

Tysons reach is actualy shorter than Fraziers so he would have to stand within convenient punching distence to land unlike Foreman. There is also a big question about how Tyson would handel Fraziers infighting technique. If Frazier goes under and gets inside on Tyson (who was esentialy a mid range fighter) can Mike adapt to it?

Frazier generaly needed a couple of rounds to warm up to his task but it is not a universal rule. He got off the starting line prety fast against Machen and nearly had him out in the first round.

It is likley that Tyson will get Frazier out of there early as some have predicted but I can see other scenario's unfolding.

1. Fraziers infighting might completely take away Tysons game in the early rounds.

2. Frazier might come out on top in an early round slugfest against the odds.

3. Frazier might simply weather the early storm and take over in mid fight due to his workrate.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

J.C.
In reply to this post by It's Dale
It's Dale wrote
I decided to watch both of them in action earlier tonight. I viewed one complete round, and four quick kayos. The first clip was the opening three minutes of Frazier/Quarry I. The second and third replays were Tyson's rapid demolitions of Mike Spinks, and Frazier's kid Marvis. Finally, Smokin' Joe's one round 1969 blowout of Dave Zyglewicz, where Joe drops Ziggy 13 seconds after the opening bell with his sixth hook of the contest.

Tyson would be in a world of trouble here. Mike wouldn't be facing an intimidated opponent in Smoke, and he couldn't bank on pre FOTC Frazier getting off to a slow start. Jimmy Ellis did well for two and a half rounds by staying the hell away from Joe, hardly Tyson's style.

If Mike did manage to hurt Joe, Smoke wouldn't stop coming, wouldn't stop getting up if Tyson did manage to floor him for an instant. For every right uppercut Mike attempted, Joe would produce three economically devastating hooks to Mike's head and body. Tyson's overhand right would simply go sailing over Joe's bobbing head. No matter how good Mike's head movement was, that wouldn't prevent Joe from nailing him downstairs. Joe would also be a lot more relaxed than Mike. It helped Tyson that Spinks was tense. Joe wouldn't be wrapped so tight.

Quarry started fast against Joe, in their title fight following the Zyglewicz massacre, pouring in nearly a hundred punches in that opening round, and Jerry could hit. Over 50 of Jerry's hooks went downstairs. But Joe returned fire, with over 60 of his own shots in that opening frame. After just two rounds, Jerry was already tiring. With Ziggy, Joe would take a little step back, and let fly with that hook.

Tyson didn't have the awesome shoving strength of a Foreman, and we're not talking about a post FOTC Frazier here. Frazier could very definitely get out of the opening rounds against Mike, then watch out! Unlike Joe, once Tyson went down, he wouldn't be able to beat the count.

Frazier KO 13 Tyson
I applaud this post for many reasons, my guy. Some have said here that Tyson hit too hard for Frazier. If Bonavena couldn't stop Frazier I don't think Tyson could. Even when Foreman clobbered Joe, Joe kept coming. Joe had a great chin and would easily outwork Tyson on the inside.

Seeing Tyson struggle with Lorenzo Boyd, Buster Mathis Jr and Holyfield when they pressured him tells me right off that Joe Frazier would smoke him good. Joe's pressure was so much stronger than those guys.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Apollo
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Entaowed wrote
It is not so much the power-though Frazier could be rocked by lesser punchers-but the explosive & accurate punches & defense.
chance.
Explosiveness IS power. An exercise like the powerclean is all about exploding in order to increase your power. Plyometric jumps are explosive movements that create power. But Tyson had also a very strong punch - I heard from people who sparred with him and various others.

I believe Frazier vs. Tyson would be a short fight overall, maybe 6 rounds - max. 8 rounds. And I can't see Frazier coming out on top here. I'd pick Mike Tyson to win.

But fights against Frazier and Foreman would take a lot out of him. He'd get chased out of his prime by them, which means that Frazier can have the upperhand in the rematch.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Apollo
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Entaowed wrote
Though do not see that fights against Foreman & Frazier necessarily would remove him from prime, especially if he gets Joe out early.
If two fights against Ruddock took a lot out of Mike, I believe that a fight against Foreman and Frazier would do it too. But since his prime was short anyway, it doesn't really matter.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

J.C.
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
You cannot take non-peak performances & assess how a guy would do.  That is as wrong as using Early or mid-'70's Frazier as an example.
It's about the styles, not peak versus peak. Mike Tyson never fought anyone who applied pressure in his prime. The closest was Lorenzo Boyd. Duggerman posted the fight video earlier. Lorenzo stayed on Tyson but was eventually taken out by an uppercut. Frazier would do much better.

Buster Mathis Jr and Holyfield put pressure on Tyson and made him uncomfortable too. He wasn't 20 years old anymore and not at his peak but he was still dangerous. Still hard hitting and had great handspeed. Tyson never adjusted well to pressure and that was Joe's thing.

Just like how Marciano pressured Louis and beat him when he was old. You could argue the same thing would have happened regardless of age, especially with Louis admitting later that Rocky would always beat him. Styles make fights and I'm not comfortable picking Tyson over Frazier in a phone booth fight.

Seriously, mate. Watch this and see how uncomfortable Tyson is against this nobody. Imagine if this were 1970-71 Joe Frazier instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57XpyBwes6c
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Brooklyn's Finest
Good debate here. Most guys were scared of getting hit by Mike so naturally you back away from him when he's coming at cha. Kevin always wanted Mike to be prepared just in case he would ever fight anyone brave enough to come at him with the same aggression so there were guys that would do that. Mike punched too hard for each of them. He'd knock them out easy.

Mike was being honest in the post-fight interview after the Mathis fight when he said "I'm the best at that style of fighting. I knew every move he was going to make." Mike was right. He was just caught off guard that night. Who expected Buster to come at Mike like that and maintain the pressure? Not me, and even so, Mike was still winning the fight easy. The accurate Mike Tyson from 10 years prior would have KO'd him in the first round instead of the 3rd.

Joe Frazier was certainly the busier fighter on the inside but Mike had more in his arsenal and Joe would get knocked out. Unlike the guys that hurt Joe like Bonavena, Chuvalo, Ramos, etc, Mike would be sure to finish him. This would come down to Frazier fighting a bigger, stronger, quicker but less hyper version of himself.

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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by J.C.
J.C. wrote
Entaowed wrote
You cannot take non-peak performances & assess how a guy would do.  That is as wrong as using Early or mid-'70's Frazier as an example.
It's about the styles, not peak versus peak. Mike Tyson never fought anyone who applied pressure in his prime. The closest was Lorenzo Boyd. Duggerman posted the fight video earlier. Lorenzo stayed on Tyson but was eventually taken out by an uppercut. Frazier would do much better.

Buster Mathis Jr and Holyfield put pressure on Tyson and made him uncomfortable too. He wasn't 20 years old anymore and not at his peak but he was still dangerous. Still hard hitting and had great handspeed. Tyson never adjusted well to pressure and that was Joe's thing.

Just like how Marciano pressured Louis and beat him when he was old. You could argue the same thing would have happened regardless of age, especially with Louis admitting later that Rocky would always beat him. Styles make fights and I'm not comfortable picking Tyson over Frazier in a phone booth fight.

Seriously, mate. Watch this and see how uncomfortable Tyson is against this nobody. Imagine if this were 1970-71 Joe Frazier instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57XpyBwes6c
I agree with J.C.

Entaowed, you can still use 1970s Frazier as an example. George Foreman would destroy him regardless of how young or old Frazier is. And Frazier's specialty was an up close, nose to nose slugfest. Frazier would outpunch Tyson once the two locked ass in center ring.

I'm a Mike Tyson fan and I admit that he was more talented than Frazier. But Frazier had the workrate, heart and guts that Tyson never had. Forget head to head for a minute. Let's do a run-down of each boxer.

Mike Tyson 

Won: 50
Lost: 6
Draws: 0
KO's: 44
Heavyweight Champ from 1986-90
Best wins over TKO3 Frank Bruno, TKO1 Carl Williams, KO1 Michael Spinks, TKO2 Tony Tubbs, TKO4 Larry Holmes, TKO7 Tyrell Biggs, TKO6 Pinklon Thomas, TKO2 Trevor Berbick

Joe Frazier 

Won: 32
Lost: 4
Draws: 1
KO's: 27
Heavyweight Champ from 1970-73
Best wins over W10 W15 Oscar Bonavena, TKO4 George Chuvalo, KO11 Buster Mathis, TKO7, TKO5 Jerry Quarry, TKO5, TKO9 Jimmy Ellis, KO2 Bob Foster, W15 Muhammad Ali

I could never in my life picture Joe Frazier losing to BUSTER DOUGLAS, DANNY WILLIAMS or KEVIN MCBRIDE!! Even though those last two were past Tyson's peak, Frazier still won fights past his peak, beating Joe Bugner and then Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis in rematches. He did moderately well in his final fight in 1981 against Jumbo Cummings. Mike Tyson didn't even try in the middle rounds with Williams and McBride when he discovered they could take his punches. Would an older Mike Tyson beat tough guys like Jerry Quarry and Jimmy Ellis? I doubt it. But a past prime Frazier certainly did.

Joe Frazier only lost to two fighters - Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. You could argue that Holyfield or Lewis might beat Joe too. This isn't the thread for that. But Joe Frazier dominated in part of the greatest era of heavyweight boxing and only lost to two of the biggest names ever in Ali and Foreman. AND, Joe Frazier beat Muhammad Ali in the biggest fight of his career.

Look at Tyson and he KO'd Michael Spinks in the biggest fight of his career. I'd say beating 29 year-old Muhammad Ali is a much bigger accomplishment, wouldn't you?
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

redfeng007
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Did Frazier explain why he can't beat Foreman?

Is it because of Foreman's uppercuts?

Could he beat Lennox Lewis as well?
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
Administrator
redfeng007 wrote
Did Frazier explain why he can't beat Foreman?

Is it because of Foreman's uppercuts?

Could he beat Lennox Lewis as well?
Yeah. He talked about both fights at length in his book, and I talked to his son Marvis about it, too.

I'll scan what Joe had to say about the Foreman fights later, but in a nutshell he said no one ever hit him so hard. Joe was always at risk for getting cracked as he worked his way inside and Foreman threw his uppercut in a way that Frazier would almost always get caught.

Most guys punched downward at Frazier and his head movement made them miss. But Foreman swung his uppercut as if he were swinging a baseball bat, rather than launching it upward like most guys do.

Joe got close and cracked Foreman with a great left hook early in the fight. George was temporarily stunned and shoved Joe away. From that point on he kept shoving Joe back and landing as he came in.

In the second fight Joe had two things working for him.

1) He didn't stand right in front of Foreman this time. He circled in and out, hoping to knock him out later once he tires. It didn't work obviously but it was an admirable strategy.

2) Foreman was afraid to "pull the trigger," so to speak. After losing to Ali he was afraid of wasting punches or tiring himself out. There were many times Foreman could have KO'd Jimmy Young and Joe Frazier (in the rematch) but he was hesitant.

Redfeng, we have a great thread on Frazier V. Foreman here if you'd like to contribute. :)

Regarding Lennox Lewis v. Joe Frazier, we have a thread on it also. Let me warn ya. It's pretty competitive in there!

To get back on topic though, I still pick Tyson to win by early knockout. However, if Frazier wasn't vulnerable early I'd give it to him. Not many guys could afford to brawl toe to toe with Joe Frazier. Remember what happened to Jerry Quarry in their first fight? Dave Zyglewicz was a tough guy who'd never been dropped before but he tried brawling with Frazier and got KO'd in less than a round.

The points people have made about Joe being the superior in-fighter are more than valid. Marciano was a better in-fighter than Tyson as well. But I don't see Frazier or Marciano lasting long with Tyson, mainly because both men were vulnerable early in the fight when Tyson was at his strongest.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Bugs
In reply to this post by Sivul
Maxmillian wrote
 Frazier knocks out Tyson after breaking his will.
Hell yes, doc. "Iron" Mike would become 'tearful' Mike after eating those devastating hooks from Smokin' Joe.


Sivul wrote
I take Joe to beat even Tyson..mentally tougher, and more stamina..a true legend!!!

<br />GIFSoup
Amen to that, doc.
Eh....What's Up, Doc?
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