Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Apollo
Banned User
This is the issue: The left hook.
Joe is going to throw it. He's going to try to decide the fight with the left hook, over and over again.

But Mike and Kevin Rooney are aware of that. Of course a slick and talented boxer like Ali was aware of it, and it didn't help. He even got knocked down by that punch. But something what Ali would never do is duck under the left hook (Ali never ducked under - he leaned back), squat down and fire a hook of his own to Joe's body (Ali never squated and went to the body). That's something I can see Mike Tyson doing.

I think there is a possibility that Joe outslugs Tyson on the inside. If Joe can take the lead, Mike has a serious problem because he never came back when he was behind.

I believe also a difference between Joe vs. Foreman and Joe vs. Mike: The Frazier fight made Foreman even more intimidating. But I believe Joe would remove all the mistery around prime Tyson by fighting a couragous fight and hurting him severel times, even if he loses.

It's like the school bully losing his crediblity by getting clocked by a weaker kid.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
Apollo Creed wrote
This is the issue: The left hook.
Joe is going to throw it. He's going to try to decide the fight with the left hook, over and over again.

But Mike and Kevin Rooney are aware of that. Of course a slick and talented boxer like Ali was aware of it, and it didn't help. He even got knocked down by that punch. But something what Ali would never do is duck under the left hook (Ali never ducked under - he leaned back), squat down and fire a hook of his own to Joe's body (Ali never squated and went to the body). That's something I can see Mike Tyson doing.

I think there is a possibility that Joe outslugs Tyson on the inside. If Joe can take the lead, Mike has a serious problem because he never came back when he was behind.
Good post. The difference being that Frazier would keep firing back no matter how hard Mike Tyson hits him. But Mike would get discouraged when Frazier digs him with those left hooks to the ribs. Frazier would land much more often too being the busier inside fighter.

Take a look in Mike's eyes during the second Razor Ruddock fight when Razor hurt him bad with an uppercut. Also look at Mike's face when Evander Holyfield hit him with a triple left hook in the first round of the first fight - two to the belly and one last one to the head. Ultimately I see Mike getting discouraged and broken down by Joe the way he did Jerry Quarry in their first fight when Jerry came out slugging.

A peak Joe Frazier would destroy Mike Tyson.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
Entaowed wrote
Who else here is predicting victory for the guy they would prefer to be lose?
Most start with a fan preference & nend the scenario to suit their fan bias.
I can't speak for others but I said myself much earlier in the thread that I'm a big Tyson fan AND he's more talented than Frazier. I explained why I pick Frazier to beat him. It's no bias, at least on my part.

One look at the FOTC shows that NO OTHER heavyweight in history could fight at a pace faster than Joe Frazier. None. Marciano came the closest. No way does Tyson survive the storm.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Rosco
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
Many say Frazier's management kept him away from th best sluggers.  With Forwman as a notable exception.  This is debatable.  
I heard that too but don't see any truth to it. Joe cleaned out the division during the '60s. The only big names he didn't fight were Earnie Terrell, Sonny Liston and Leotis Martin. Leotis Martin suffered an eye problem just before he could fight Frazier and Frazier would have killed that mane anyway. Sonny Liston was too old at the time and I'll bet anything his management kept him from Frazier. Sonny had to be in his forties by then.

I don't know why Joe didn't fight Earnie but Terrell but I wouldn't pick him to beat peak Frazier. Besides, Frazier fought Bonavena, Quarry, Chuvalo, Foster, Ellis and many others who could pop. He didn't duck any punchers.

I just think it's another case of people making any excuse they can that Joe had a "glass chin."
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Apollo
Banned User
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
 Also no likelihood a prime Tyson is getting KOed.
Do you mean in general or in particular by Frazier?

In general I can see prime Tyson knocked out.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
Tyson's face when he beat Ruddock-slearly both times-does not mean much.
I forgot to respond to this earlier. I think the look of panic and hurt on Tyson's face when he got hit by Razor mean a lot! The guy stood there and froze. He did the same thing when hit hard by Bruno, Lewis and others. Someone better than Ruddock would have finished him off right then and there! Let Joe Frazier land a monster hook on Tyson. If Tyson stood there frozen Joe would tear him apart and Tyson would never get back in the fight.

Even when Joe was hurt by Foreman he pretended he wasn't and wanted desperately to continue. Rule #1 of fighting is bravado. Don't let your opponent know when he's hurt you. Once Joe sees the hopelessness on Tyson's face it's a wrap. Frazer wouldn't fear him and beats him mentally then physically.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
Administrator
Urban Legend wrote
Rule #1 of fighting is bravado. Don't let your opponent know when he's hurt you. Once Joe sees the hopelessness on Tyson's face it's a wrap. Frazer wouldn't fear him and beats him mentally then physically.
Joe said in his book that he saw the defeated look on the faces of guys like Quarry, Mathis, and Ramos, he went in for the kill. He said it was like blood to sharks to him.

Anything can happen when two swarmers clash in center ring. They would be ducking and weaving into each other's blows. Whoever backs up will lose. Frazier was better in this kind of brawl but Mike's power saves the day early before Joe starts smokin.

If Frazier had a chin on the level of Tua, McCall or Chuvalo, then he definitely breaks Tyson and wins by TKO late. But I'm not comfortable picking Frazier over Tyson. Mike just had too much 'Iron' in his fists, hence the name.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
Entaowed wrote
Freezing is a different story bthan a mere expression.  I will have to look for that.

What AJ said + Frazier is not elusive enough.  The iron + speedy combinations would be a deciding factor.
Tyson froze when hit hard and had a look of defeat on his face. Look at his face against Lewis, Holyfield and Ruddock when they landed hard. The defeated look would inspire Frazier to go for the kill and Tyson just standing there would certainly get him blown out by a left hook.

And of course Joe Frazier was elusive. Muhammad Ali was one of the best jabbers of all time and Frazier made him miss with most of them in 3 fights. He would duck Tyson's hooks and land with his own. He threw that left hook like a whip.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

redfeng007
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Tyson had to finish Frazier fast on the early rounds.

If not, Frazier will TKO him on the late rounds.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Rosco
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
Ellis was not a big "popper", & Foster not at all on the HW level, look at his string of step up losses.
Though Frazier was great then, it was like Ali vs. Cleveland not an epic challenge to say the least.
Jimmy Ellis did have a good right hand though. It wasn't as hard as Rocky Marciano or as fast as Floyd Patterson but it could take you by surprise. Remember when he KO'd Oscar Bonavena? That's something Joe Frazier could not do in two grueling fights.

Bob Foster had one of the most powerful left hooks in the history of light heavyweights. Did you ever see his knockout of Mike Quarry? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQgA41C3fCs Naturally that punch won't carry over to heavyweights but he could pop.

And no I would not compare Frazier's fights with Ellis and Foster to Ali's fight with Williams. Williams was injured by a gunshot and only plodded forward. Ellis and Foster were both in their primes and healthy and tried to make a fight of it. Joe Frazier was just too great.

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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
AJ, would you describe Tyson's look when rocked in all or some of the above fights as one of "defeat"?
This is an interpretation anyway, not science, but whaddya done thunk?
It was a look of defeat, in my opinion. He let Ruddock get some extra shots in afterward but eventually won the fights. But against Holyfield and Lewis he wasn't the same after taking the punches that made him look that way.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Rosco
Entaowed wrote
OK fair enough.  Frazier was great & Ellis was no competition, though Foster as you alluded to did not have the pop/bulk to be a very successful HW, witness his record in the division.  Ali fought better competition then than Williams, just showed great moves & dazzling speed then.
Yea. We have a thread about Ali and Williams somewhere here. It's easy to dance and look jazzy against an opponent not resisting. Douglas looked sensational against Tyson but it was only because Tyson stood there and let Douglas do whatever he wanted. Cleveland did the same against Ali.

Luc
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Luc
In reply to this post by Bugs
For me this is Tyson all the way.

I of course like Frazier, and recognise that his stamina and heart are second-to-none.

But Tyson is in a different league physically. Much more powerful, much quicker, much more savage intent. A bigger man with a greater variation. And Frazier would be coming at him and just eating numerous, massive shots. In a sense it would be Frazier-Foreman-esq; but Tyson is much more accurate, less wasteful and simply more vicious than big George. Even if young George edges power, Tyson would be more active and more accurate than Foreman was.

A small part of me thinks Frazier could just about survive the vicious onslaught and take Tyson into some bruising late-stage places - but I don't think this stands up to reality, and in actual fact I think it would be over very quickly. This is a bad, bad fight for Frazier.

Tyson in a savage 2 round beating.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
Administrator
This would be a nose to nose slugfest while it lasts.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Alucard
I love Frazier but i have to go with Tyson... Just for the fact that Tyson would swarm you from the start and Frazier usually started slow and became better and better as fight goes on... If, a big if, Frazier survives early rounds, Tyson is in big trouble... Tyson is the harder puncher with better combos, mastered the peek-a-boo, chin probably about the same, one could say that Frazier avoided the punchers, but Tyson also got hurt and knocked silly by featherfisted Buster Douglas, similar speed, heart and stamina to Frazier... Prime or no prime, Tyson had problems with big skilled men who could tie him up and punch from distance, Frazier is not one of them, but also Frazier would not be intimidated, Frazier also the better in-fighter... Uppercuts would be a massive problem for Frazier also, Tyson was a master with them, but he didn't throw them like Foreman, so who knows... Clear edge for Tyson, all in all more advanced, but who knows...
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