Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Apollo
Banned User
This is the issue: The left hook.
Joe is going to throw it. He's going to try to decide the fight with the left hook, over and over again.

But Mike and Kevin Rooney are aware of that. Of course a slick and talented boxer like Ali was aware of it, and it didn't help. He even got knocked down by that punch. But something what Ali would never do is duck under the left hook (Ali never ducked under - he leaned back), squat down and fire a hook of his own to Joe's body (Ali never squated and went to the body). That's something I can see Mike Tyson doing.

I think there is a possibility that Joe outslugs Tyson on the inside. If Joe can take the lead, Mike has a serious problem because he never came back when he was behind.

I believe also a difference between Joe vs. Foreman and Joe vs. Mike: The Frazier fight made Foreman even more intimidating. But I believe Joe would remove all the mistery around prime Tyson by fighting a couragous fight and hurting him severel times, even if he loses.

It's like the school bully losing his crediblity by getting clocked by a weaker kid.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
Apollo Creed wrote
This is the issue: The left hook.
Joe is going to throw it. He's going to try to decide the fight with the left hook, over and over again.

But Mike and Kevin Rooney are aware of that. Of course a slick and talented boxer like Ali was aware of it, and it didn't help. He even got knocked down by that punch. But something what Ali would never do is duck under the left hook (Ali never ducked under - he leaned back), squat down and fire a hook of his own to Joe's body (Ali never squated and went to the body). That's something I can see Mike Tyson doing.

I think there is a possibility that Joe outslugs Tyson on the inside. If Joe can take the lead, Mike has a serious problem because he never came back when he was behind.
Good post. The difference being that Frazier would keep firing back no matter how hard Mike Tyson hits him. But Mike would get discouraged when Frazier digs him with those left hooks to the ribs. Frazier would land much more often too being the busier inside fighter.

Take a look in Mike's eyes during the second Razor Ruddock fight when Razor hurt him bad with an uppercut. Also look at Mike's face when Evander Holyfield hit him with a triple left hook in the first round of the first fight - two to the belly and one last one to the head. Ultimately I see Mike getting discouraged and broken down by Joe the way he did Jerry Quarry in their first fight when Jerry came out slugging.

A peak Joe Frazier would destroy Mike Tyson.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
Entaowed wrote
Who else here is predicting victory for the guy they would prefer to be lose?
Most start with a fan preference & nend the scenario to suit their fan bias.
I can't speak for others but I said myself much earlier in the thread that I'm a big Tyson fan AND he's more talented than Frazier. I explained why I pick Frazier to beat him. It's no bias, at least on my part.

One look at the FOTC shows that NO OTHER heavyweight in history could fight at a pace faster than Joe Frazier. None. Marciano came the closest. No way does Tyson survive the storm.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Rosco
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
Many say Frazier's management kept him away from th best sluggers.  With Forwman as a notable exception.  This is debatable.  
I heard that too but don't see any truth to it. Joe cleaned out the division during the '60s. The only big names he didn't fight were Earnie Terrell, Sonny Liston and Leotis Martin. Leotis Martin suffered an eye problem just before he could fight Frazier and Frazier would have killed that mane anyway. Sonny Liston was too old at the time and I'll bet anything his management kept him from Frazier. Sonny had to be in his forties by then.

I don't know why Joe didn't fight Earnie but Terrell but I wouldn't pick him to beat peak Frazier. Besides, Frazier fought Bonavena, Quarry, Chuvalo, Foster, Ellis and many others who could pop. He didn't duck any punchers.

I just think it's another case of people making any excuse they can that Joe had a "glass chin."
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Apollo
Banned User
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
 Also no likelihood a prime Tyson is getting KOed.
Do you mean in general or in particular by Frazier?

In general I can see prime Tyson knocked out.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
Tyson's face when he beat Ruddock-slearly both times-does not mean much.
I forgot to respond to this earlier. I think the look of panic and hurt on Tyson's face when he got hit by Razor mean a lot! The guy stood there and froze. He did the same thing when hit hard by Bruno, Lewis and others. Someone better than Ruddock would have finished him off right then and there! Let Joe Frazier land a monster hook on Tyson. If Tyson stood there frozen Joe would tear him apart and Tyson would never get back in the fight.

Even when Joe was hurt by Foreman he pretended he wasn't and wanted desperately to continue. Rule #1 of fighting is bravado. Don't let your opponent know when he's hurt you. Once Joe sees the hopelessness on Tyson's face it's a wrap. Frazer wouldn't fear him and beats him mentally then physically.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
Administrator
Urban Legend wrote
Rule #1 of fighting is bravado. Don't let your opponent know when he's hurt you. Once Joe sees the hopelessness on Tyson's face it's a wrap. Frazer wouldn't fear him and beats him mentally then physically.
Joe said in his book that he saw the defeated look on the faces of guys like Quarry, Mathis, and Ramos, he went in for the kill. He said it was like blood to sharks to him.

Anything can happen when two swarmers clash in center ring. They would be ducking and weaving into each other's blows. Whoever backs up will lose. Frazier was better in this kind of brawl but Mike's power saves the day early before Joe starts smokin.

If Frazier had a chin on the level of Tua, McCall or Chuvalo, then he definitely breaks Tyson and wins by TKO late. But I'm not comfortable picking Frazier over Tyson. Mike just had too much 'Iron' in his fists, hence the name.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Urban Legend
Entaowed wrote
Freezing is a different story bthan a mere expression.  I will have to look for that.

What AJ said + Frazier is not elusive enough.  The iron + speedy combinations would be a deciding factor.
Tyson froze when hit hard and had a look of defeat on his face. Look at his face against Lewis, Holyfield and Ruddock when they landed hard. The defeated look would inspire Frazier to go for the kill and Tyson just standing there would certainly get him blown out by a left hook.

And of course Joe Frazier was elusive. Muhammad Ali was one of the best jabbers of all time and Frazier made him miss with most of them in 3 fights. He would duck Tyson's hooks and land with his own. He threw that left hook like a whip.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

redfeng007
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Tyson had to finish Frazier fast on the early rounds.

If not, Frazier will TKO him on the late rounds.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Rosco
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
Ellis was not a big "popper", & Foster not at all on the HW level, look at his string of step up losses.
Though Frazier was great then, it was like Ali vs. Cleveland not an epic challenge to say the least.
Jimmy Ellis did have a good right hand though. It wasn't as hard as Rocky Marciano or as fast as Floyd Patterson but it could take you by surprise. Remember when he KO'd Oscar Bonavena? That's something Joe Frazier could not do in two grueling fights.

Bob Foster had one of the most powerful left hooks in the history of light heavyweights. Did you ever see his knockout of Mike Quarry? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQgA41C3fCs Naturally that punch won't carry over to heavyweights but he could pop.

And no I would not compare Frazier's fights with Ellis and Foster to Ali's fight with Williams. Williams was injured by a gunshot and only plodded forward. Ellis and Foster were both in their primes and healthy and tried to make a fight of it. Joe Frazier was just too great.

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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Entaowed
Entaowed wrote
AJ, would you describe Tyson's look when rocked in all or some of the above fights as one of "defeat"?
This is an interpretation anyway, not science, but whaddya done thunk?
It was a look of defeat, in my opinion. He let Ruddock get some extra shots in afterward but eventually won the fights. But against Holyfield and Lewis he wasn't the same after taking the punches that made him look that way.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Entaowed
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Rosco
Entaowed wrote
OK fair enough.  Frazier was great & Ellis was no competition, though Foster as you alluded to did not have the pop/bulk to be a very successful HW, witness his record in the division.  Ali fought better competition then than Williams, just showed great moves & dazzling speed then.
Yea. We have a thread about Ali and Williams somewhere here. It's easy to dance and look jazzy against an opponent not resisting. Douglas looked sensational against Tyson but it was only because Tyson stood there and let Douglas do whatever he wanted. Cleveland did the same against Ali.

Luc
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Luc
In reply to this post by Ryan
For me this is Tyson all the way.

I of course like Frazier, and recognise that his stamina and heart are second-to-none.

But Tyson is in a different league physically. Much more powerful, much quicker, much more savage intent. A bigger man with a greater variation. And Frazier would be coming at him and just eating numerous, massive shots. In a sense it would be Frazier-Foreman-esq; but Tyson is much more accurate, less wasteful and simply more vicious than big George. Even if young George edges power, Tyson would be more active and more accurate than Foreman was.

A small part of me thinks Frazier could just about survive the vicious onslaught and take Tyson into some bruising late-stage places - but I don't think this stands up to reality, and in actual fact I think it would be over very quickly. This is a bad, bad fight for Frazier.

Tyson in a savage 2 round beating.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
Administrator
This would be a nose to nose slugfest while it lasts.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Alucard
I love Frazier but i have to go with Tyson... Just for the fact that Tyson would swarm you from the start and Frazier usually started slow and became better and better as fight goes on... If, a big if, Frazier survives early rounds, Tyson is in big trouble... Tyson is the harder puncher with better combos, mastered the peek-a-boo, chin probably about the same, one could say that Frazier avoided the punchers, but Tyson also got hurt and knocked silly by featherfisted Buster Douglas, similar speed, heart and stamina to Frazier... Prime or no prime, Tyson had problems with big skilled men who could tie him up and punch from distance, Frazier is not one of them, but also Frazier would not be intimidated, Frazier also the better in-fighter... Uppercuts would be a massive problem for Frazier also, Tyson was a master with them, but he didn't throw them like Foreman, so who knows... Clear edge for Tyson, all in all more advanced, but who knows...
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

49-0
Larry Holmes told Duggerman that Joe was a harder puncher than Tyson. Did you see the interview? It's posted here somewhere. Some people dispute Frazier hitting harder than Tyson but it could well be true. Larry was the only person to feel both of their power - Joe in sparring and he fought Tyson.

Where did you hear that Joe avoided punchers? What punchers did he avoid? I read that he tried booking a fight with Shavers but it fell through, and Sonny Liston avoided Joe. Joe did fight Foreman twice, and Bonavena could bang too.

The last thing I disagree with is Douglas being feather-fisted. He hit Tyson with some hard, thudding shots. That uppercut before the KO was a huge punch. Tyson's head almost flew off! lol.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Alucard
Yeah i saw that interview, but Holmes always seemed a bit biased against Tyson for that ko defeat... Tyson has a better ko record and floored bigger opponents than Frazier, but no doubt he hit hard, Evolution also said that he sparred lightly with an old Frazier when he trained Cooper, and his left hook was still crazy... Well, many said that Frazier avoided Liston, Norton, Lyle, Shavers, but yeah i don't believe it, sharing the ring with a monster like Foreman was enough, although losing to him was better legacy wise than against the other lesser bangers... Douglas was not a puncher, his record shows it, but as you rightly said that night with Tyson he looked great and did throw with very bad intentions, hurt Tyson plenty with big shots, and yeah that final uppercut was vicious! You could hear the punch and it was crazy!
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Duggerman
Administrator
Alucard wrote
Well, many said that Frazier avoided Liston, Norton, Lyle, Shavers, but yeah i don't believe it, sharing the ring with a monster like Foreman was enough, although losing to him was better legacy wise than against the other lesser bangers...
I interviewed Joe Frazier's son Marvis and spent a lot of time with him a couple years ago. I've also met his sister Natasha Frazier, and I have a copy of their dad's autobiography. I know a lot about Smokin' Joe!!

Frazier and Norton were great friends and did not want each other in the ring. They sparred often though. According to Marvis, their sparring sessions were competitive but Joe generally whooped Ken, although Ken dropped Joe once.

Joe nearly fought Shavers twice but something would always come up. Eddie Futch didn't support Joe facing Shavers. Not because he felt Joe would get destroyed, but because this was in 1977-78. Joe was too far past his prime and barely stayed in retirement. He had that warrior spirit.

Joe didn't duck Sonny Liston. It was the other way around. Joe cleaned out the division in the late '60s when Ali was exiled. Sonny Liston was older and wanted no part of Frazier. I'm not sure why Frazier never fought Lyle, but I'm sure the timing wasn't right because Lyle was making moves when Frazier's career was winding down.

This is something people don't realize. Joe had just went through hell in Manilla with Ali. In his very next bout what fight did he take? A rematch with George Foreman!! The man had stones. We saw what happened when he fought George the first time. After Manilla, most guys would take easy fights for about a year at least. Not Frazier. He took the most dangerous fight out there! He feared no one. I don't understand where the rumors came from that Joe ducked sluggers.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Shogun of Harlem
Frazier could outwork Tyson easily as he was the better inside fighter. But he wouldn't survive Tyson's bombs. With all due respect to Frazier, he probably wouldn't last much longer than his son did.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Westmoreland
Joe was much tougher than "Iron" Mike. His inside fighting and swarming tops Mike. Some of you are a little too high on Tyson. Come on. Since when does Joe have a glass chin? Only one man knocked him out his whole career. Foreman stopped Joe but Joe kept getting up. But some of you say Mike would kill Joe the way he did Marvis? lol. Mike was not as big or powerful as George Foreman, and Joe was still trying to keep attacking even when George had him hurt.

When two swarmers meet in the center of the ring, anything can happen, but phone booth wars were Joe's specialty. Mike would not be able to hook with Joe on the inside. Joe's left hook was ferocious and constant. Joe would beat the hell out of Mike. Mike either quits or gets KO'd before he quits.

But while we're on the topic here is a pic of Joe wrapping Mike's gloves.


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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Westmoreland
When (not if) Joe slams Mike with a left hook like this, Mike would go down in a heap crying and not get back up...

GIFSoup
That left hook would definitely crack Mike. Mike had a habit of pausing when getting cracked hard. And that's when Joe would hit him again!
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

South Pacific
Tyson’s uppercut was savage. But when you drop your arm to throw an uppercut you leave your head wide open for a left hook. In fact that's how Joe dropped Ali in 1971 - Ali dropped his hand to throw an uppercut and Joe nailed him during that brief opening.

If Frazier and Tyson were slugging it out nose to nose and Tyson went for an uppercut, Frazier would land his hook first. This would be a tough fight for Tyson. Joe`s workrate on the inside was phenomenal. I remember Evander Holyfield hurting Tyson in '96 with a triple left hook - two the body and one to the head. Tyson stood there for a few seconds in a daze and didn’t throw anything back. Well, throwing double and triple left hooks was a trademark of Frazier and when Tyson gets hurt and just stands there, Frazier will move in for the kill.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Hit Em' Hard
South Pacific wrote
Tyson’s uppercut was savage. But when you drop your arm to throw an uppercut you leave your head wide open for a left hook. In fact that's how Joe dropped Ali in 1971 - Ali dropped his hand to throw an uppercut and Joe nailed him during that brief opening.

If Frazier and Tyson were slugging it out nose to nose and Tyson went for an uppercut, Frazier would land his hook first. This would be a tough fight for Tyson. Joe`s workrate on the inside was phenomenal. I remember Evander Holyfield hurting Tyson in '96 with a triple left hook - two the body and one to the head. Tyson stood there for a few seconds in a daze and didn’t throw anything back. Well, throwing double and triple left hooks was a trademark of Frazier and when Tyson gets hurt and just stands there, Frazier will move in for the kill.
You make a good case for Frazier. But would Joe's chin stand up to Mike's power? This, and the fact that Joe was often vulnerable early (while Tyson was at his strongest early) leads me to believe that Tyson wins by blowout before Joe starts smoking.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

49-0
^^This is a phone booth fight. Mike was not a good inside fighter; Joe would get off first when they clash.
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Will69
Mike is just too strong.  His punches are quicker than Joe's, more accurate, more varied, and have one-punch knock-out kill-power.   Fraizer is like a high-speed blender coming at you and sticking in your face and chest.  But Mike is dynamite.  Dynamite wins.  Especially as Joe wasn't a big guy, a peak, ferocious Tyson would explode all over him and Mike could handle Fraizer's grinding assault enough rounds till he found an opening and launched his missiles.  The fact that Joe only fought on the inside makes it all the more certain that Tyson would eventually make the kill.

It's interesting that so many of the posters here made the obligatory "I'm a Fraizer fan, I would want Fraizer to win", etc..  to get entrance to the discussion.  To me, the validity of your opinion isn't or shouldn't be determined by who's poster you had on your bedroom wall growing up.  I'm a big Tyson fan, but I know Lewis or Klitschkos would win against him (Although Tyson would have a real chance against Lewis in the 80s), and I wouldn't be shy in saying so.  
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Re: Joe Frazier Would Kick Mike Tyson's Behind

Sivul
In reply to this post by Urban Legend
Urban Legend wrote
by the end of the night, Tyson will be frustrated with his back to the ropes, wandering what he got himself into.
Good post.
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