Joe Louis in the 90s

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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

Hit Em' Hard
I'd like to see him mix it up with Riddick Bowe or even '99 Vitali. I see it going something like this.

He wins against any '90s version of Tyson. Holyfield would have a chance but his habit of trying to brawl would get him stopped by Louis. Louis beats old Foreman, Michael Moorer, David Tua, Bert Cooper, Hasim Rahman, Frank Bruno, Golota, Ruiz, Grant, Holmes, etc. I say he beats guys like that with ease.

He would also beat Briggs, young Vitali and Mercer but would suffer a scary moment or two against them.

Bowe and Lewis are the two who have the best chance of beating him. Louis should be the favorite but Lewis and Bowe both have a great size advantage and know how to use it properly, plus they can both take a punch and fight on the inside if they need to. I'd pick Louis to win but both guys would be an uphill battle and it shouldn't be an upset if they win.
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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

Leo the Lion
Hit Em' Hard wrote
I'd like to see him mix it up with Riddick Bowe or even '99 Vitali. I see it going something like this.

He wins against any '90s version of Tyson. Holyfield would have a chance but his habit of trying to brawl would get him stopped by Louis. Louis beats old Foreman, Michael Moorer, David Tua, Bert Cooper, Hasim Rahman, Frank Bruno, Golota, Ruiz, Grant, Holmes, etc. I say he beats guys like that with ease.

He would also beat Briggs, young Vitali and Mercer but would suffer a scary moment or two against them.

Bowe and Lewis are the two who have the best chance of beating him. Louis should be the favorite but Lewis and Bowe both have a great size advantage and know how to use it properly, plus they can both take a punch and fight on the inside if they need to. I'd pick Louis to win but both guys would be an uphill battle and it shouldn't be an upset if they win.
Bro you have some good points, but a strong thing people overlook is the changes in equipment from Louis to the 90's. Hit em Hard, as a boxer you know what I'm talking about and how gloves make a huge difference. I'm sure if y'all ask Bad Intentions and Evolution they'll agree with me. As an boxer myself I know firsthand the difference gloves make. Louis' era's gloves were not as padded or as well padded as today or the 90's. His punches wouldn't hurt as much in the 90's as they did in the 40's. Sure it might only be marginal in some cases, but if you factor in that the 90's guys scored a myriad of knockouts with well padded and sophisticated glove technology and Louis didn't... Well it's just an example of how things could go. I understand that people will always love their classics, but there are blatantly clear things to consider: training has gotten better, nutrition has improved, technique and principles have changed. So much has evolved and whether we like it or not, with time athletes get better based on the feats their forebears have made. I love Louis, but guys the 90's were a time of athletically superior individuals. We know there were guys with monster chins and huge punches. We all know David despite his weakness to body punches, if you can call it that, couldn't be dropped. Only time he was ever "dropped" was by monte barret and that was an exhaustion factor more than a legitimate punch.
Leo Rothmann - Amateur Boxer 183lbs
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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

Urban Legend
Leo the Lion wrote
Hit Em' Hard wrote
I'd like to see him mix it up with Riddick Bowe or even '99 Vitali. I see it going something like this.

He wins against any '90s version of Tyson. Holyfield would have a chance but his habit of trying to brawl would get him stopped by Louis. Louis beats old Foreman, Michael Moorer, David Tua, Bert Cooper, Hasim Rahman, Frank Bruno, Golota, Ruiz, Grant, Holmes, etc. I say he beats guys like that with ease.

He would also beat Briggs, young Vitali and Mercer but would suffer a scary moment or two against them.

Bowe and Lewis are the two who have the best chance of beating him. Louis should be the favorite but Lewis and Bowe both have a great size advantage and know how to use it properly, plus they can both take a punch and fight on the inside if they need to. I'd pick Louis to win but both guys would be an uphill battle and it shouldn't be an upset if they win.
Bro you have some good points, but a strong thing people overlook is the changes in equipment from Louis to the 90's. Hit em Hard, as a boxer you know what I'm talking about and how gloves make a huge difference. I'm sure if y'all ask Bad Intentions and Evolution they'll agree with me. As an boxer myself I know firsthand the difference gloves make. Louis' era's gloves were not as padded or as well padded as today or the 90's. His punches wouldn't hurt as much in the 90's as they did in the 40's. Sure it might only be marginal in some cases, but if you factor in that the 90's guys scored a myriad of knockouts with well padded and sophisticated glove technology and Louis didn't... Well it's just an example of how things could go. I understand that people will always love their classics, but there are blatantly clear things to consider: training has gotten better, nutrition has improved, technique and principles have changed. So much has evolved and whether we like it or not, with time athletes get better based on the feats their forebears have made. I love Louis, but guys the 90's were a time of athletically superior individuals. We know there were guys with monster chins and huge punches. We all know David despite his weakness to body punches, if you can call it that, couldn't be dropped. Only time he was ever "dropped" was by monte barret and that was an exhaustion factor more than a legitimate punch.
Interesting perspective. Who are some '90s guys you pick to beat Louis and how?
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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

Leo the Lion
Urban Legend wrote
Leo the Lion wrote
Hit Em' Hard wrote
I'd like to see him mix it up with Riddick Bowe or even '99 Vitali. I see it going something like this.

He wins against any '90s version of Tyson. Holyfield would have a chance but his habit of trying to brawl would get him stopped by Louis. Louis beats old Foreman, Michael Moorer, David Tua, Bert Cooper, Hasim Rahman, Frank Bruno, Golota, Ruiz, Grant, Holmes, etc. I say he beats guys like that with ease.

He would also beat Briggs, young Vitali and Mercer but would suffer a scary moment or two against them.

Bowe and Lewis are the two who have the best chance of beating him. Louis should be the favorite but Lewis and Bowe both have a great size advantage and know how to use it properly, plus they can both take a punch and fight on the inside if they need to. I'd pick Louis to win but both guys would be an uphill battle and it shouldn't be an upset if they win.
Bro you have some good points, but a strong thing people overlook is the changes in equipment from Louis to the 90's. Hit em Hard, as a boxer you know what I'm talking about and how gloves make a huge difference. I'm sure if y'all ask Bad Intentions and Evolution they'll agree with me. As an boxer myself I know firsthand the difference gloves make. Louis' era's gloves were not as padded or as well padded as today or the 90's. His punches wouldn't hurt as much in the 90's as they did in the 40's. Sure it might only be marginal in some cases, but if you factor in that the 90's guys scored a myriad of knockouts with well padded and sophisticated glove technology and Louis didn't... Well it's just an example of how things could go. I understand that people will always love their classics, but there are blatantly clear things to consider: training has gotten better, nutrition has improved, technique and principles have changed. So much has evolved and whether we like it or not, with time athletes get better based on the feats their forebears have made. I love Louis, but guys the 90's were a time of athletically superior individuals. We know there were guys with monster chins and huge punches. We all know David despite his weakness to body punches, if you can call it that, couldn't be dropped. Only time he was ever "dropped" was by monte barret and that was an exhaustion factor more than a legitimate punch.
Interesting perspective. Who are some '90s guys you pick to beat Louis and how?
Yo Urban,

I can agree with Joe taking guys out like Tommy morrison and the mid tier guys. However I have to say that some mid tier guys would still do very well vs Louis. A good example is Mercer - the man's chin at his peak was fucking made out of space metal 😂.
I would favour Lewis over Louis. I'm sure evolution can attest to the insane punching power Lewis has. Lewis dropped bombs that Louis never dreamt of. Also Lewis while he was with Steward is in my eyes a top 5 of all time. I don't like Lennox much, but I do believe him to have been a phenom in his time.
I would pick Evander over Louis because of his slick combinations and sound chin. In my eyes Evander is one of the greatest of all time. I'm sure evolution can agree with me on that. The guy has timing which is Louis - esque. Of course Joe Louis had crazy skills and his combination of timing and speed hit you right out, but physical prowess has a huge effect in the 90's. We saw Tyson's game totally shat on by the way Evander dominated the ring with his clinches and moving of Tyson. As strong ands Louis might have been, I don't believe he would have done what is needed against these guys. Sure there's Primo Carnera, but the man was clumsy and slow when compared to the 90's.
I think Louis was great in his time got sure and I'm and sun big fan, but the guys from the 90's were just athletically superior to the guys from Joe's time. All the top tier guys from the 90's are good clinchers, which counts for a lot. We've seen many fighters lose their mojo because someone tied them up time and time again. Joe wouldn't be able to do what he needs to.
Leo Rothmann - Amateur Boxer 183lbs
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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

Joe Kingman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
Joe Louis would not dominate in the 90s. He was a talented fighter but the guys in the 90s were too strong, imo.

For example, Ray Mercer was careless and crude but he hit like a truck and constantly swarmed you. Louis didn't like pressure. It's possible Mercer knocks him out.
When I first read this old post of yours, The Rock must confessed...he giggled a bit. Ray Mercer, the sloppy fighter who literally farted time and time again when Morrison hit him. Ray Mercer, knocking out the great Joe Louis. A comical thought.

But after thinking it over, the Rock can absolutely smell what you're cooking there AJ.

Joe was not trained to wrestle and did not do well when the pressure was really turned up on the inside. One reason why I favor the old time fighters over the modern eras is that there was much less clinching and "rasslin" going on in there. These days when two guys are up close a clinch is inevitable, generally done to catch a break or frustrate the other guy's strategy.

The Rock likes his beer cold and his wings hot and decided to watch Joe's wars with Marciano and Godoy. To the Rock's amazement, he noticed that Joe almost never clinched, no matter how much they swarmed his ass. He did what he could do fight out of it but that's real hard to do when a guy is on you like that. You don't have punching room and don't even have time to mull things over. It's like trying to hold off a crowd. You're doomed.

On paper and based on records Ray should be easy for Joe. It's a fight Joe should win. But the guy that stood up to Lewis and Morrison and kept on coming after them endlessly might just overwhelm Joe and get a shocking win by TKO. He didn't apply the pressure of a Marciano but he was much bigger and Joe would choose to fight rather than clinch or wrestle, which is the only way he could stand a chance of survival or prolonging his demise in there. Also Ray had the chin to eat those Joe Louis combinations and would just keep on trucking forward.

-Joe Kingman

Random, but look @ this old school pic of Joe Kingman and his daughter babeh, yeah!!

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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

Duggerman
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^^The best Ray Mercer I ever saw was the one that took the fight to Lewis in ‘96. In some of the rounds he was a relentless tank..but therin lies the problem—SOME ROUNDS.

He had some lazy rounds too, and that’s how Lewis got the win. Especially the last two rounds..Ray was tired and coasted and allowed Lewis to do a bit more, and those final two rounds allowed Lewis to win a close split decision.

Louis would tear Ray apart if he takes lazy rounds and slows down like that. Plus, even when Ray was at his most aggressive, he was still crude and predictable. Louis had the ring smarts to figure him out and counter him easy, though he would probably hit the floor once or twice.

Remember that Holyfield, a similar counterpuncher to Louis, decked a prime Mercer, so no doubt Louis could do the same.

I see Louis winning by TKO, but not without some scary moments.
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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

Malik Wright
Old flabby Larry Holmes embarrassed the s.hit out of Ray Mercer in Ray’s prime. Ray Mercer does not belong in the same sentence as Joe Louis. They shouldn’t use the same toothpaste brand, fly in the same plane or anything. Louis is first class all the way, rookies.

Now if you wanna comb through the 90s and seriously evaluate who might give Louis a good tussle, look no further than Frank Bruno and Butterbean. Maybe Peter McNeeley too
Malik El Debarge Wright
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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

Duggerman
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Malik Wright wrote
Old flabby Larry Holmes embarrassed the s.hit out of Ray Mercer in Ray’s prime. Ray Mercer does not belong in the same sentence as Joe Louis. They shouldn’t use the same toothpaste brand, fly in the same plane or anything. Louis is first class all the way, rookies.

Now if you wanna comb through the 90s and seriously evaluate who might give Louis a good tussle, look no further than Frank Bruno and Butterbean. Maybe Peter McNeeley too
The Holmes fight was a learning experience for Mercer. Mercer never fell victim to a jab like that again, even outjabbing Lennox Lewis in '96.

You could also argue that the Tyson fight was a learning experience for Holmes. Had he not suffered that brutal defeat to Tyson, you might say that Holmes wouldn't have been "ready" for a guy like Mercer. The Tyson fight showed Larry what to expect from a guy like Mercer.

Like I said earlier, Louis would beat Mercer. But it would not be a cakewalk. Ray might be more of a threat to Louis than Max Baer was.
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Re: Joe Louis in the 90s

precious-1
In reply to this post by Leo the Lion
Hit Em' Hard I agree with what you are saying.
I usually avoid threads like this because as you correctly point out modern fighters have all the advantages you cited & even then they rarely fight when they are both at their peak powers. There are just too many variables so we are really only left with their records & personal opinion. Louis reigns supreme with his 11 years at the top & is my greatest HW but I would concede if we had a time machine & put him up against big skilled guys like Lewis, or relentless Holyfield, short bombers like Tyson or Frazier, would he have won, probably not.
Just take another sport like Tennis with the racket technology, teams of trainers, nutritionists, height averages. It's hard to see 5'7" Rocket Rod double Grand slam winner competing against 6'2" mega fit Djokovic or a 6' relentless Nadal but that doesn't devalue his incredible achievement. My point is even I engage in pub arguments over who is the greatest, it's fun but that old saying "You can only be the best of your time" always comes to mind when I think of it rationally
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