Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

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Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Left Hook From Hell...


What if the two never had that rematch? Yea. I know Louis was out of focus when they fought and the best Louis would always beat the best Schmeling but we wouldn't know that for sure if they never fought again. Would it put a cramp in Louis' legacy if he never got his revenge on Schemling and showed who the better fighter was? Would Schmeling be considered a top ten heavyweight because of his big win over Louis?
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Entaowed
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Left Hook From Hell...
I read that before. Max was a good guy for sure but can you imagine if he never fought Joe again? For all of his misgivings, he had a knockout victory over prime Joe Louis, something no one else could say. The same Joe Louis who would go on to defend the title 25 times over 12 years. I'm certain this would hurt Joe's legacy a little bit because for all his success and accomplishments he was beat up for 12 rounds and knocked out by Max Schmeling who was less talented and far older. This would have to catapault Max into the top ten above Louis.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Shogun of Harlem
I would say Max would be in the top ten somewhere. A win over PRIME Joe Louis? The same Joe Louis who would go on to have all those title defenses? Yeah Max would be in the top ten. The smallest things can change your legacy and overall ranking. Like what if Rocky Marciano lost a fight? He probably wouldn't make the top ten at all.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Zombies Ate Me
It doesn't have to be that complicated. Just put him wherever you have Louis and bump Louis down one spot. Max getting a fair and square win over prime Louis would put him there if he'd never fought him again and lost to him.

He had a very convincing win over Louis. He beat him up for 12 rounds then knocked him cold. If they never fought again that one victory would do wonders for Max's legacy.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Zombies Ate Me
Entaowed wrote
 
Louis was near prime, great but '36 was not considered quite prime-but even if it had been '38-'42 before the break for WW2, IT seems quite extreme to have the absence of a single rematch loss catapult anyone from clearly out of the top 10 to...What by your system would be #1 or 2 all time according to most people's rankings!  
Joe said himself that the fight with Baer was his prime. I think that was the fight where he said he could have fought 20 times that night or something like that. If anyone knows when his prime and peak was, it's Joe himself.

Furthermore, George Foreman is generally rated higher than Joe Frazier because he beat him. If you beat somebody (especially in their prime) you should rank higher. At least in a sense.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Duggerman
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Entaowed wrote
Foreman & Frazier...Well, only if you beat someone when they are at least as prime as you.  And Frazier was clearly past his prime then.  
I disagree. He was past his peak maybe. But still prime. He was only 29 years old. George was just too powerful for him is all.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Duggerman
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Entaowed wrote

Frazier did not look the same fighter in fights before & after that loss as when he was truly smokin'.  He was still excellent, though visibly less so.  The intersection of his physical & experiential peak was ~ '69, though still near the very top physically during the FOTC & supremely motivated.
He looked the same against Foreman as he did in his previous fights with Ron Stander and Terry Daniels. He went up in weight a bit after the FOTC. That fight was the last time he looked lean and sharp. One thing I admired about Joe is that even when he was past his peak he was still a dangerous heavyweight who could beat anyone other than Foreman and Ali.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Duggerman
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Joe made such a statement when he destroyed Schmeling. It's tough of think of what history would have been like if that fight never happened. It's one of Louis' legacy fights for sure.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

MAGUIRE
I don't know. BUSTER DOUGLAS never gave Mike Tyson a rematch and we know Douglas doesn't rank higher than Tyson. Like Tyson I think Louis' legacy would be hurt a bit by the loss but it doesn't make Schmeling catapault above him as an ATG.
 photo lennox-hair_3476731_GIFSoupcom_zps919d29c7.gif
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Duggerman
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MAGUIRE wrote
I don't know. BUSTER DOUGLAS never gave Mike Tyson a rematch and we know Douglas doesn't rank higher than Tyson. Like Tyson I think Louis' legacy would be hurt a bit by the loss but it doesn't make Schmeling catapault above him as an ATG.
That's true BUT we know Buster's win over Tyson was lightning in a bottle. It's the one fight he was motivated for, and lucky for him Tyson was over-confident and not in his usual fighting condition.

Max Schmeling on the other hand was already a former heavyweight champion with wins over good fighters and was 33 and "over the hill" when he beat a prime Joe Louis.

If they never fought again you could certainly argue that maybe Max had Joe's number and the result would be the same if they fought again. Joe was the better fighter, sure. But Max beat him convincingly and took full advantage of a technical flaw in Joe's style.

This was one of those upsets that need a rematch to remove all doubt. Fortunately we got to see it and Joe demolished Max in minutes to prove himself as the best.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

RICKY TAN
If Joe hadn't been told to carry Max for a certain number of rounds then he would have KO'd him in one round during the first fight too.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

Duggerman
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RICKY TAN wrote
If Joe hadn't been told to carry Max for a certain number of rounds then he would have KO'd him in one round during the first fight too.
I agree with that, also. He was just playing with him and giving him ring time.
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Re: Max Schmeling's Legacy if he never fought the rematch with Joe Louis

The Golden Jet
In reply to this post by Left Hook From Hell...
Oh definitely. Louis would drop a few notches. The difference between this and the case with Tyson/Douglas is that Schmeling had previously been heavyweight champion so his legacy was already intact. Plus he was what, 11 years older than Joe? AND he didn’t beat him by a fluke. He actually had a legit STRATEGY to beat that man, and he had the patience and the punch to do it.

Douglas was previously a bum fighter and went right back to being a bum fighter after whooping a lazy Tyson. No one in their right mind feels that Douglas would win a rematch with Tyson, especially since Douglas avoided it and lost his titles in his very first title defense. Just sad.

But Schmeling had his shit together. His victory was well earned. Without a rematch we wouldn’t know if Joe could come back and beat him.