Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
160 messages Options
12345
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
That's right. Put them both in their peak years. How does this one go?

Winner?
You cannot change your vote after voting.
You have to vote before you can see the results.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Shane
Would be a good fight. I think Tyson might trail behind on the scorecards early but win by decision as Joe Frazier did, or he might possibly win by late knockout. I say "late knockout" because I don't think anyone KOs Muhammad Ali early.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Michelle
Funny I see this thread because me and my brother used to argue with my dad about this one all the time. My dad says that Muhammad was too fast for Tyson but my brother and me would insist that Tyson would smash Ali's pretty brains in.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Rosco
Both at their very best the Ali who destroyed Cleveland "Big Cat" Williams and the Iron Mike Tyson that destroyed Michael Spinks then I would have to go for Ali over Tyson on clear points decision
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Zorro
Ali never fought someone with the combined speed and power of Mike, he was a new kind of beast, the heavy hitters of Ali's era were plodders. Remember Holmes.. never down.. until he met Mike and then he hit the floor like a 16 stone sack o shite.
Prime to Prime probably the 2 best ever. I'd go with Mike by savage KO but in the rematch take Ali by UD
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Evolution
It's Muhammad who takes this one. Easily.

Mike struggled against Mitch Green, Tony Tucker, James Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and was kayod by Buster Douglas.

What do these men have in common with Muhammad Ali? Nothing but height and the ability to frustrate fighters that charge in. Tyson could not hurt these men, and it's evident that Ali was much, much, much superior to them all in terms of skill and chin.

If prime Mike couldn't knock out those guys, he's in serious trouble against The Greatest.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
Evolution wrote
It's Muhammad who takes this one. Easily.

Mike struggled against Mitch Green, Tony Tucker, James Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and was kayod by Buster Douglas.

What do these men have in common with Muhammad Ali? Nothing but height and the ability to frustrate fighters that charge in. Tyson could not hurt these men, and it's evident that Ali was much, much, much superior to them all in terms of skill and chin.

If prime Mike couldn't knock out those guys, he's in serious trouble against The Greatest.
That's what most of the Tyson detractors say. However, Ali lacked proper defense. You don't fight with your hands down against Mike Tyson. Also, Tyson threw so deadly combinations with such speed and accuracy that Ali would get hit with four or five punches seemingly all at once. Ali was good at recovering quickly from one big punch but I don't know how his chin would stand up to combinations.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

BAD INTENTIONS
In reply to this post by Zorro
Zorro wrote
Ali never fought someone with the combined speed and power of Mike, he was a new kind of beast, the heavy hitters of Ali's era were plodders. Remember Holmes.. never down.. until he met Mike and then he hit the floor like a 16 stone sack o shite.
Holmes was down twice before meeting Iron Mike. Earnie Shavers and Renaldo Snipes put him down but couldn't finish him off.

I'm a big Tyson fan but it was Joe Frazier's high workrate that won him over against Muhammad Ali. Frazier constantly hit Ali with big bombs. Tyson lands big bombs but in spurts. I think Ali would take a decision but not without some scary moments from Tyson.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

BAD INTENTIONS
In reply to this post by Michelle
Michelle wrote
Funny I see this thread because me and my brother used to argue with my dad about this one all the time. My dad says that Muhammad was too fast for Tyson but my brother and me would insist that Tyson would smash Ali's pretty brains in.
You're beautiful. I'm going to email you sweetie.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Big Red
ALI BUMAYEH!!

Muhammad Ali would not resort to ear biting and all that jazz. Not only did he beat some of the best in the world (Liston, Foreman, Frazier) but he didn't cheat to do it.


As for the fight itself, Tyson could not get near Ali to hit him, much less knock him out.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

GatorPurify
I don't think Mike struggled against Mitch Green. He neat the breaks off Mitch Green but Green clinched the whole fight. I think Mike could of knocked Green out but wanted to punish him for all the trash he talked. The 1988 Tyson was focused I'd put my money on Tyson. If prime Ali barely survived Henry Cooper, he's not surviving a prime Iron Mike.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Urban Legend
GatorPurify wrote
I don't think Mike struggled against Mitch Green. He neat the breaks off Mitch Green but Green clinched the whole fight. I think Mike could of knocked Green out but wanted to punish him for all the trash he talked. The 1988 Tyson was focused I'd put my money on Tyson. If prime Ali barely survived Henry Cooper, he's not surviving a prime Iron Mike.
Kevin Rooney said that Mike had trouble with Mitch because he fought as a counterpuncher.

Speaking of Mitch 'Blood' Green, he was the first man never to touch the canvas against Mike. Did Mike have a problem with Green's style or did he underestimate him? 
It was Green's style. All Green was doing was counterpunching. He wasn't leading. Green fought a defensive fight and didn't look to engage. He only looked to survive. Mike beat the fuck outta him! When you got a guy who's 6'4", that doesn't want to lead or exchange, he's hard to fight - and he's definitely hard to knock out. Also, Mitch has always been pissed off about his situation with Don King. That's what lead to that street fight in Harlem in front of that clothing store. Green took a slug at Mike and Mike blasted him.
Here is a link to the full interview. It's a very interesting read.

http://www.markstraining.com/2009/10/kevin-rooney-on-mike-tyson.html

As for Henry Cooper, Ali was not in his prime yet. He was still green in 1963. Sonny Banks had knocked him down the year before. "Cassius Clay" hadn't filled out yet and was still crafting his style. When Henry Cooper fought Ali again, he could never repeat that lucky punch because Ali had improved.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Michelle
In reply to this post by BAD INTENTIONS
BAD INTENTIONS wrote
You're beautiful. I'm going to email you sweetie.
I got your email.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Shane
In reply to this post by Urban Legend
I've read that interview before and I believe every word of what Kevin Rooney says. Mike said after the Mitch Green fight that he wanted to "punish him" but I think he said that to save face; it's virtually impossible to knock out a big man who only wants to counter and hold all night.

We really need to keep Ali's first fight with Henry Cooper out of the picture. We should also steer clear of talking about Tyson's bad fight with James "Quick" Tillis. Tyson and Ali were both green when they fought Cooper and Tillis. 1964-67 were the peak years for Muhammad and 1985-88 were the peak years for Mike. We have to think of them at their very best to make the best analysis.

I think Tyson would ultimately get it done because he throws dangerous combinations with bad intentions, something Muhammad Ali never dealt with.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Zorro
In reply to this post by BAD INTENTIONS
BAD INTENTIONS wrote
Zorro wrote
Ali never fought someone with the combined speed and power of Mike, he was a new kind of beast, the heavy hitters of Ali's era were plodders. Remember Holmes.. never down.. until he met Mike and then he hit the floor like a 16 stone sack o shite.
Holmes was down twice before meeting Iron Mike. Earnie Shavers and Renaldo Snipes put him down but couldn't finish him off.
Forgive me. I'm in my 50s. My memory isn't what it once was.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
Tyson would have to press Ali and stay on him. He doesn't throw as many punches as Frazier but the combinations he throws would mess Ali up, especially against the ropes.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Zombies Ate Me
I'm a big Mike Tyson fan but Muhammad Ali fought better competition and won. He had a durable chin, could take Tyson's punches (if Tyson could catch him) and who could forget the Thrilla in manilla? No other heavyweight other than Muhammad Ali could survive such a war.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Evan Fields
In reply to this post by GatorPurify
GatorPurify wrote
I don't think Mike struggled against Mitch Green. He neat the breaks off Mitch Green but Green clinched the whole fight. I think Mike could of knocked Green out but wanted to punish him for all the trash he talked. The 1988 Tyson was focused I'd put my money on Tyson. If prime Ali barely survived Henry Cooper, he's not surviving a prime Iron Mike.
There are two things wrong with this post.

1) Mike struggled against Mitch Green. I know Mike said after the fight that he wanted to "punish him" but he would lose his status as an invincible fighter if he came out and admitted that he struggled. Kevin Rooney said several times that Mitch's style was just all wrong for Mike. Mike knocked Mitch's mouthpiece into the third row and caught him with vicious punches all night. No way was Mike holding back. He was trying to knock him out but Mitch never put himself in position to get finished off.

2) Muhammad Ali was not prime when he fought Henry Cooper. Sonny Banks had knocked him down and hurt him bad months before. This was not the "Cassius Clay" that beat up Sonny Liston, Zora Folley, Ernie Terrell and all those others. As someone else mentioned, Muhammad did much better when he fought Henry Cooper the second time around. Green Joe Frazier almost got stopped by Oscar Bonavena but improved in their rematch. The same thing happened when Muhammad fought Henry Cooper.

Are you a new boxing fan?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
The Gr8 One wrote
GatorPurify wrote
I don't think Mike struggled against Mitch Green. He neat the breaks off Mitch Green but Green clinched the whole fight. I think Mike could of knocked Green out but wanted to punish him for all the trash he talked. The 1988 Tyson was focused I'd put my money on Tyson. If prime Ali barely survived Henry Cooper, he's not surviving a prime Iron Mike.
There are two things wrong with this post.

1) Mike struggled against Mitch Green. I know Mike said after the fight that he wanted to "punish him" but he would lose his status as an invincible fighter if he came out and admitted that he struggled. Kevin Rooney said several times that Mitch's style was just all wrong for Mike. Mike knocked Mitch's mouthpiece into the third row and caught him with vicious punches all night. No way was Mike holding back. He was trying to knock him out but Mitch never put himself in position to get finished off.

2) Muhammad Ali was not prime when he fought Henry Cooper. Sonny Banks had knocked him down and hurt him bad months before. This was not the "Cassius Clay" that beat up Sonny Liston, Zora Folley, Ernie Terrell and all those others. As someone else mentioned, Muhammad did much better when he fought Henry Cooper the second time around. Green Joe Frazier almost got stopped by Oscar Bonavena but improved in their rematch. The same thing happened when Muhammad fought Henry Cooper.

Are you a new boxing fan?
Take it easy. Everyone has an opinion. That's what this place is about.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Zorro
You all are tempting me to watch the Tyson-Mitch Green fight. I haven't watched that one in a few years. However, Mitch was a journeyman fighter at best...not worthy of being compared to Muhammad Ali.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Michelle
Mitch Green!! I heard of him. That's the guy that attacked Mike on the mean streets right? I think Mike shut his eye.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

GatorPurify
This post was updated on .
Michelle wrote
Mitch Green!! I heard of him. That's the guy that attacked Mike on the mean streets right? I think Mike shut his eye.

Yeah that's him. It was reported Mitch had a cocaine problem at the time. That makes sense. If you run up on Mike Tyson in the streets without a pistol you have to be on some type of narcotics. Iron Mike beat the breaks off this dude.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Evan Fields
Gr8 One, I wouldn't say that Gator's post is wrong. The 20 year-old Tyson would wreck the 20 year-old Cassius Clay. When Ali fought Henry Cooper the first time, he was inexperienced. By the time he fought Sonny Liston the next year for the title, Ali had mastered his style: he would sometimes plant his feet, pummel you then dance out of the way before you could retaliate. The young Ali of the first Cooper fight did more running than fighting. He had his style downpat when they fought again.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Evan Fields
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
Take it easy. Everyone has an opinion. That's what this place is about.
I didn't mean this in a mean way. I wish there was a better way to decipher humor or tone online. This poster (Gatorpurify) also said that Riddick Bowe had Evander Holyfield's number when its been proved otherwise.

Kevin Rooney confirmed several times that it was Mitch's style that kept him from getting hurt by Iron Mike. Mike was manipulating the media bigtime back then. I read that Mike hated Larry Merchant AND Larry Holmes. But after the Holmes fight, he was super nice to Larry (Merchant) and even said that he wouldn't stand a chance against prime Larry. He just said that because it was the right thing to say to please the media. Tyson was controlled by his managers. Therefore when he couldn't figure out Mitch Green,,,he lied to the press and said he was just playing with him and taking his time. His stock would have went down if he came out and admitted that he couldnt' stop a piss ass fighter like Bitch Green.

Speaking of Green, he survived Tyson by holding and countering. If Bitch Green could do it so could Muhammad and he'd do it better.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
The Gr8 One wrote
I didn't mean this in a mean way. I wish there was a better way to decipher humor or tone online. This poster (Gatorpurify) also said that Riddick Bowe had Evander Holyfield's number when its been proved otherwise.

Kevin Rooney confirmed several times that it was Mitch's style that kept him from getting hurt by Iron Mike. Mike was manipulating the media bigtime back then. I read that Mike hated Larry Merchant AND Larry Holmes. But after the Holmes fight, he was super nice to Larry (Merchant) and even said that he wouldn't stand a chance against prime Larry. He just said that because it was the right thing to say to please the media. Tyson was controlled by his managers. Therefore when he couldn't figure out Mitch Green,,,he lied to the press and said he was just playing with him and taking his time. His stock would have went down if he came out and admitted that he couldnt' stop a piss ass fighter like Bitch Green.

Speaking of Green, he survived Tyson by holding and countering. If Bitch Green could do it so could Muhammad and he'd do it better.
I read in the Facing Tyson book about Tyson's contempt for Merchant and Holmes. Rooney, Jacobs and Cayton were good at controlling Mike after Cus died. You're certainly right; they kept him loved by the public by telling him what to say.

Your post is good but for me it comes down to this...Mitch Green didn't fight with his hands down the way Ali did. Ali was faster than Green, he had a better chin than Green, and he's more than 10 times better than Mitch Green could ever be. Mitch fought a cowardly, but smart fight. He ran, grappled and wouldn't allow Tyson to get in more than one punch at a time. To sum it up, Green wouldn't let Tyson unleash those fierce combinations.

Ali, while a superior fighter to Green, held his hands low. All Tyson has to do is press him. Ali's head and body would be open, especially against the ropes. He'd be open for combinations all night. Mitch Green was not. You don't fight with your hands low for 12-15 rounds against Mike Tyson. That one flaw would get Ali broken in half.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

GatorPurify
Duggerman wrote
The Gr8 One wrote
I didn't mean this in a mean way. I wish there was a better way to decipher humor or tone online. This poster (Gatorpurify) also said that Riddick Bowe had Evander Holyfield's number when its been proved otherwise.

Kevin Rooney confirmed several times that it was Mitch's style that kept him from getting hurt by Iron Mike. Mike was manipulating the media bigtime back then. I read that Mike hated Larry Merchant AND Larry Holmes. But after the Holmes fight, he was super nice to Larry (Merchant) and even said that he wouldn't stand a chance against prime Larry. He just said that because it was the right thing to say to please the media. Tyson was controlled by his managers. Therefore when he couldn't figure out Mitch Green,,,he lied to the press and said he was just playing with him and taking his time. His stock would have went down if he came out and admitted that he couldnt' stop a piss ass fighter like Bitch Green.

Speaking of Green, he survived Tyson by holding and countering. If Bitch Green could do it so could Muhammad and he'd do it better.
I read in the Facing Tyson book about Tyson's contempt for Merchant and Holmes. Rooney, Jacobs and Cayton were good at controlling Mike after Cus died. You're certainly right; they kept him loved by the public by telling him what to say.

Your post is good but for me it comes down to this...Mitch Green didn't fight with his hands down the way Ali did. Ali was faster than Green, he had a better chin than Green, and he's more than 10 times better than Mitch Green could ever be. Mitch fought a cowardly, but smart fight. He ran, grappled and wouldn't allow Tyson to get in more than one punch at a time. To sum it up, Green wouldn't let Tyson unleash those fierce combinations.

Ali, while a superior fighter to Green, held his hands low. All Tyson has to do is press him. Ali's head and body would be open, especially against the ropes. He'd be open for combinations all night. Mitch Green was not. You don't fight with your hands low for 12-15 rounds against Mike Tyson. That one flaw would get Ali broken in half.
Exactly. And Mitch didn't really fight, he just survived. And I don't understand how Tyson had trouble with Mitch Green when Mitch only won one/ two rounds according to the judges.
The fight was scored:
George DeGabriel 8-2
George Colon 9-1
Pat Dolan 9-1
This was a landslide victory. The fight would of been closer if Mike had so much trouble.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Evan Fields
Did you read the Kevin Rooney interview Urban Legend posted? Mitch Green wouldn't allow Tyson to knock him out. Thats all I'm saying. Ali would have used those same tactics but better. Boxing is political anyway. The judges scored the Tyson-Douglas right for Tyson and if he hadn't been ko'd, buster would have been robbed. The judges also rooted for Tyson against James Tillis.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

49-0
Well, we already proved that Riddick Bowe did not have Evander's number. It's Evander's fault he lost twice to Riddick. Evander fought the wrong fight the first time and fought sick the last time and it zapped his strength. Are people still saying that Riddick Bowe had Evander's number? smh. Evolution  shared the ring with both men and even he said that Evander was the much better fighter and should have won.

Now to this thread. It was a landslide victory when Tyson fought Green but Tyson could never knock him out or hurt him bad. It was because of Green's style. Green can take one big punch but was never hit with the combinations that would have finished him. Look at Mike and Kevin Rooney in between rounds. They were frustrated. As for the scorecards, the judges can be biased so never look at the scorecards as if it was the gospel. Who can forget Holyfield-Lewis 1 or Joe Louis-Joe Walcott 1? Those fights were highway robberies. And the Gr8 1 beat me to mentioning Tyson's "lead" on the scorecards when he was knocked out by Douglas.

Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali? At their very best I would say Tyson wins because he was basically Joe Frazier on steroids. Rocky Marciano would also stop Ali. It's a styles thing.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
I've said this before and I'll say it again..

No matter how hard you punch, you can't knock out everyone. Eddie Machen survived 10 long rounds against Sonny Liston. Yes, the same Eddie Machen that was knocked out of the ring by Joe Frazier and knocked out by Floyd Patterson. Oscar Bonavena could not be hurt by Joe Frazier in two fights, but was knocked out by Jimmy Ellis and Muhammad Ali, neither of whom could bang like Frazier.

There were guys that Tyson failed to knock out. Some guys just don't put themselves in position to get nailed with knockout punches. Mitch Green, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker and James Tillis were four of those men for Mike Tyson.

Muhammad Ali, with his hands low, would be open prey for Tyson all night. Once Tyson closes the gap and gets inside, you'll see fireworks and then an unconscious Ali lying on the canvas.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Zombies Ate Me
The referee plays a big part in this fight too. We can't forget that. If Ali is allowed to hold, he might get the decision from biased judges, just like in the rematch with Joe Frazier. Holding is the only reason Mitch Green, James Smith, James Tillis and Tony Tucker survived Tyson's rage.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Maximillian
Tyson didn't do well against big tall men who could jab and move well. Ali was the epitome of such a man. If Tyson couldn't hit Mitch Green or Bonecrusher with combinations, how the hell is he going to do it against Ali? This is a no brainer.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Malik Wright
The Greatest wrote
Tyson didn't do well against big tall men who could jab and move well. Ali was the epitome of such a man. If Tyson couldn't hit Mitch Green or Bonecrusher with combinations, how the hell is he going to do it against Ali? This is a no brainer.
Are you serious? This is a fight between two heavyweights. One is a cold blooded killer and the other is a coward. Yall already know Mike Tyson would destroy that boy in the ring. Yall already know that!!
Malik El Debarge Wright
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
Here are two fantasy posters, courtesy of eastside boxing.





This would be a great fight. Ali would win some rounds but its only a matter of time before Tyson gets in close and demolishes him..
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

KB50MJ
ESPN did a little debate on this subject. Pretty interesting: http://youtu.be/ONnXnpk96Pk
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

GatorPurify
KB50MJ wrote
ESPN did a little debate on this subject. Pretty interesting: http://youtu.be/ONnXnpk96Pk
I like Skip Bayless, but he is a trip. I just think Ali's style and not sound defense would be an invitation of Iron Mike.
12345