Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
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Left Hook From Hell... wrote
I know (or am assuming) that the closest fighter to Mike Tyson that Muhammad Ali fought was Joe Frazier. Am I wrong on that? And, answer me this. Who was the closest fighter to Ali that Tyson fought? I wanna see these fights and compare even though it won't be the real thing. Stylewise I wanna see it.
I'm re-quoting this to show you round 1 of Tyson-Biggs. Tyrell Biggs did a great Muhammad Ali impersonation until he got rocked, then he abandoned it. This round is the closest simulation we'll see to Tyson-Ali. Holmes, Tillis and Douglas did Ali-esque things, but it was Tyrell Biggs who was the closest to a spot-on impersonation of Muhammad Ali. Too bad it only lasted less than a round because he had Tyson somewhat frustrated. It was interesting to watch.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Left Hook From Hell...
Duggerman wrote
Left Hook From Hell... wrote
I know (or am assuming) that the closest fighter to Mike Tyson that Muhammad Ali fought was Joe Frazier. Am I wrong on that? And, answer me this. Who was the closest fighter to Ali that Tyson fought? I wanna see these fights and compare even though it won't be the real thing. Stylewise I wanna see it.
I'm re-quoting this to show you round 1 of Tyson-Biggs. Tyrell Biggs did a great Muhammad Ali impersonation until he got rocked, then he abandoned it. This round is the closest simulation we'll see to Tyson-Ali. Holmes, Tillis and Douglas did Ali-esque things, but it was Tyrell Biggs who was the closest to a spot-on impersonation of Muhammad Ali. Too bad it only lasted less than a round because he had Tyson somewhat frustrated. It was interesting to watch.

<center><iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cHpKpidg3mc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></center>
Thank you. This is the kind of thing I was looking for. Tyrell fought just like Muhammad Ali. I really wish he had kept it up. I'm sure Muhammad Ali would have maintained his fight plan no matter how much he got hit.

That one round does show how Tyson would cope with Ali's movement and jab.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

MAGUIRE
I'm a bit late to this party. Ali would find a way to outhink Tyson. Now there's a big chance Tyson could win. He was a new kind of beast even faster and harder punching than Joe Frazier. But seeing Ali pull off so many miracles against power punchers tells me he'd find a way to beat Iron Mike. Tyson could only fight one way. Ali would adjust and beat him in the battle of the mind.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
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MAGUIRE wrote
I'm a bit late to this party. Ali would find a way to outhink Tyson. But seeing Ali pull off so many miracles against power punchers tells me he'd find a way to beat Iron Mike. Tyson could only fight one way. Ali would adjust and beat him in the battle of the mind.
You're not the first person I've heard say that Ali would outsmart or outhink Tyson. Interestingly enough, I've only heard this opinion in person but never online until now.

How would Ali outsmart Tyson? Are you refering to the 'rope-a-dope?' I doubt that would work on Tyson. He was a front runner like Foreman, yes. But he paced his attacks and his hooks and uppercuts would eventually get through. If you're not referring to the rope-a-dope, explain how Ali would outsmart Tyson? This is an opinion I've heard numerous times but no one could really explain how.

Also, you're right that Tyson fought one way. But so did Ali! Ali didn't do well in toe to toe brawls, which is what Joe Frazier and Ken Norton forced him into. Also, he couldn't cut the ring or fight as an aggressor. His bouts with Jimmy Young and Doug Jones demonstrate this. Ali could only fight on the outside, just as Tyson could only fight on the inside. Both were one dimensional fighters in that regard, but Ali could do more overall.

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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

MAGUIRE
Duggerman wrote
MAGUIRE wrote
I'm a bit late to this party. Ali would find a way to outhink Tyson. But seeing Ali pull off so many miracles against power punchers tells me he'd find a way to beat Iron Mike. Tyson could only fight one way. Ali would adjust and beat him in the battle of the mind.
You're not the first person I've heard say that Ali would outsmart or outhink Tyson. Interestingly enough, I've only heard this opinion in person but never online until now.

How would Ali outsmart Tyson? Are you refering to the 'rope-a-dope?' I doubt that would work on Tyson. He was a front runner like Foreman, yes. But he paced his attacks and his hooks and uppercuts would eventually get through. If you're not referring to the rope-a-dope, explain how Ali would outsmart Tyson? This is an opinion I've heard numerous times but no one could really explain how.

Also, you're right that Tyson fought one way. But so did Ali! Ali didn't do well in toe to toe brawls, which is what Joe Frazier and Ken Norton forced him into. Also, he couldn't cut the ring or fight as an aggressor. His bouts with Jimmy Young and Doug Jones demonstrate this. Ali could only fight on the outside, just as Tyson could only fight on the inside. Both were one dimensional fighters in that regard, but Ali could do more overall.
I can't speak for whoever else you talked to but here's my take on it.

Mike Tyson is not a dumb human being. But Muhammad Ali is smarter. Muhammad's intellect won many fights for him. He was a thinking fighter while Tyson was more of a physical specimen. Something as small as attacking a lot in the last 20 seconds of a round is enough to impress the judges to steal the round at the last minute. That's just one of many tricks Ali had up his sleeve. Ali almost always found a way to win and against some of the best boxers ever.

Ali knew how to get into guys' heads. Tyson was weak mentally and has said so. Ali would destroy his confidence before the fight and continue to break it further during the fight!! He'd talk shit to Tyson and shatter his will. Tyson's best shot is an early KO and it ain't happening here. Even in his prime Tyson faded down the stretch of his fights and Ali would take advantage of this. When Tyson gets discouraged, lazy and slow, Ali would suddenly beat the shit out of him. He'd be smart enough to avoid the "Tyson storm" from rounds 1-4, and by round 8-10 Tyson wouldn't be a threat anymore.

Tyson only has a puncher's chance and even that is somewhat of a slim chance. I could see Tyson winning. You proved some good points earlier about how Ali never had to deal with a devastating combination puncher like Tyson, or anyone that threw an uppercut like Tyson. So based on their styles it's possible for Tyson to get close and destroy Ali. It's possible. But unlikely. Ali was fast enough, tough enough and wise enough to beat Tyson in my honest opinion.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

BAD INTENTIONS
Yeah...like I said earlier Ali would suffer some SCARY moments...Tyson would rock him more than once...but in a war of attrition Ali would win. Late TKO is my guess.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Left Hook From Hell...
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
Ali never faced anyone with an uppercut like Mike Tyson. Off the top of my head I can't think of anyone who landed an uppercut on Ali!
That is a good point. Mike's uppercut could be Ali in real trouble especially if he threw it in a combination of hooks. It's something I'd like to see. I'm still somewhat new to boxing but I never saw anyone land an uppercut on Ali.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

redfeng007
George Foreman.

Somewhere in the middle rounds.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
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Ali said that George's uppercut had him out on his feet.

Let's examine this: If Ali was knocked into the ropes by a double left hook (One to the body, one to the head) and briefly knocked unconscious by one savage uppercut by George, is it not unreasonable to believe that Tyson could really hurt Ali with his right hook to the body-uppercut to the chin-left hook to the chin combination?

We see that Ali didn't take combinations and uppercuts well the few times he was caught with them. The ropes broke his fall against Frazier, and Foreman didn't realize he had Ali out on his feet.
Tyson knocking out Ali is not out of the question, especially if they fought more than once.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Entaowed
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Phantom Punch
Mike's handspeed on the inside was insane. Gotta pick Mike here in one of the greatest fights we'll never see.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Brooklyn's Finest
As a former sparring employee of Mike Tyson, I could easily tell you that Tyson would beat the living snot out of "The Greatest." But I don't think it'd be so. Mike would be outclassed by Muhammad. Mike sometimes slowed his pace, let himself get clinched, and would lean to the left or dip before exploding with the left hook.

Muhammad was smart and we already know Mike sometimes had a hard time with tall fighters. Remember how Angelo Dundee taught Pinklon Thomas to time Mike's bobbing and weaving pattern and was able to jab him repeatedly? Whose to say Angelo wouldn't have given that strategy to Muhammad Ali?

Muhammad was fast and able to dance out of danger if cornered. Joe Frazier fought at a faster pace and applied much more pressure than Mike would, which is only part of the reason he was able to trouble Muhammad. In short, Muhammad was too smart and athletically gifted for Mike Tyson. And this is coming from a guy who Mike used to knock out on a regular basis!
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
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In reply to this post by Zorro
Zorro wrote
I found this amazing documentary about a potential fight between Ali and Tyson. Eddie Futch, Bert Sugar, Teddy Atlas, Steve Lott, Angelo Dundee, George Foreman, Larry Holmes and a lot of others examine their styles and who would have won. It's three parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8jxmiXonfQ

http://youtu.be/GXRTT8vduBs

http://youtu.be/BcZoIka4fqw
Watching this again now. Great documentary. I just hate that they frequently used the Douglas fight to point out Mike's weaknesses.

Teddy Atlas may be biased against Mike but he proved a good point when he said that Ali wouldn't let Tyson clinch or offer a "silent contract." Most guys held on to Mike and enjoyed the clinch. Ali wouldn't. The moment Tyson stops punching, Ali would let Tyson have it. Frazier, unlike Tyson, had this nonstop attack and intensity, never giving Ali (or any of his opponents) a chance to rest. Tyson isn't busy on the inside and gives you a chance to rest. Bonecrusher, Tucker, Green and several others were too scared to use those moments to attack. Ali wouldn't be.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
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This old commercial is pretty sweet!

https://youtu.be/TGOT0PZ1biY
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Rosco
Duggerman wrote
This old commercial is pretty sweet!

https://youtu.be/TGOT0PZ1biY
Tyson better follow up right away after smashing that uppercut. That would be the only way to seriously hurt Muhammad. Like I said earlier, I still pick Ali to win here, but Tyson would have his moments.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Courtney
Prime versus prime Ali wins this one by decision or late knockout. But Tyson would win if they both fought when they were novices. Imagine the 18/19 year-old Mike Tyson of 1985 fighting the green Cassius Clay that fought Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper? Those guys rocked Clay hard and floored him. Green Tyson would explode on him; maybe stop him in a round.

BUT the Ali of 1964 onwards would soundly beat Tyson.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Will69
This is probably one of the most popular fantasy fights ever.  I may have even responded beforehand.  At the risk of reiterating, here goes.

I pick Ali, because he would find a way counter Tyson at the right moments, and that would fluster Tyson, similar to how Holyfield flustered him.  Ali has arguably one of the strongest chins in boxing.  If a prime foreman could pummel him and not be able to break Ali, Ali would certainly put some decent resistance against Tyson.  Also, Tyson wore out as the rounds went on.  When Ali took you to these deep waters that he called home, he owned you.  No doubt Ali would get hit by some gruesome bombs, but if he stumbles through them, he would comeback with an army to reciprocate - his recuperating powers were simply ridiculous.  Ali feared no one, and wasn't afraid to jump into the fire.  This is something that threw off a prime Tyson.  Ali was smart enough to know how to get to his opponent.  This ring intelligence was often more subtle - he would throw combinations and jabs at odd angles or so fast they always found their mark and wore his opponent down.  At the end of the day, anyone going against a prime Tyson would have something to worry about.  But Ali is one fighter who had the best tools in the business, and speed and skill to get through the other side, even against the toughest killers.  He's proven it too many times.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Joe Kingman
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I hadn't responded to this thread yet, as most of it took place before I registered here.

Tyson could only beat the really EARLY version of Muhammad Ali, circa 1960-63. The Clay that got nearly KO'd by Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper would no doubt be easy prey for Tyson. He was fast, but hadn't got his timing right yet. By the time he got to Liston, Ali had his style down pat. Tyson loses to this Ali.

Tyson would also beat the OLD Ali post Manilla. I'm talking about the peak Tyson though. 1987-88 Tyson against Ali (1960-63) or (1976-80) would be murder.
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Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

The Golden Jet
I bet on Tyson. That's speed and power Ali never had to deal with.
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