Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
159 messages Options
12345 ... 8
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Michelle
Mitch Green!! I heard of him. That's the guy that attacked Mike on the mean streets right? I think Mike shut his eye.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

GatorPurify
This post was updated on .
Michelle wrote
Mitch Green!! I heard of him. That's the guy that attacked Mike on the mean streets right? I think Mike shut his eye.

Yeah that's him. It was reported Mitch had a cocaine problem at the time. That makes sense. If you run up on Mike Tyson in the streets without a pistol you have to be on some type of narcotics. Iron Mike beat the breaks off this dude.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Evan Fields
Gr8 One, I wouldn't say that Gator's post is wrong. The 20 year-old Tyson would wreck the 20 year-old Cassius Clay. When Ali fought Henry Cooper the first time, he was inexperienced. By the time he fought Sonny Liston the next year for the title, Ali had mastered his style: he would sometimes plant his feet, pummel you then dance out of the way before you could retaliate. The young Ali of the first Cooper fight did more running than fighting. He had his style downpat when they fought again.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Evan Fields
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
Take it easy. Everyone has an opinion. That's what this place is about.
I didn't mean this in a mean way. I wish there was a better way to decipher humor or tone online. This poster (Gatorpurify) also said that Riddick Bowe had Evander Holyfield's number when its been proved otherwise.

Kevin Rooney confirmed several times that it was Mitch's style that kept him from getting hurt by Iron Mike. Mike was manipulating the media bigtime back then. I read that Mike hated Larry Merchant AND Larry Holmes. But after the Holmes fight, he was super nice to Larry (Merchant) and even said that he wouldn't stand a chance against prime Larry. He just said that because it was the right thing to say to please the media. Tyson was controlled by his managers. Therefore when he couldn't figure out Mitch Green,,,he lied to the press and said he was just playing with him and taking his time. His stock would have went down if he came out and admitted that he couldnt' stop a piss ass fighter like Bitch Green.

Speaking of Green, he survived Tyson by holding and countering. If Bitch Green could do it so could Muhammad and he'd do it better.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
The Gr8 One wrote
I didn't mean this in a mean way. I wish there was a better way to decipher humor or tone online. This poster (Gatorpurify) also said that Riddick Bowe had Evander Holyfield's number when its been proved otherwise.

Kevin Rooney confirmed several times that it was Mitch's style that kept him from getting hurt by Iron Mike. Mike was manipulating the media bigtime back then. I read that Mike hated Larry Merchant AND Larry Holmes. But after the Holmes fight, he was super nice to Larry (Merchant) and even said that he wouldn't stand a chance against prime Larry. He just said that because it was the right thing to say to please the media. Tyson was controlled by his managers. Therefore when he couldn't figure out Mitch Green,,,he lied to the press and said he was just playing with him and taking his time. His stock would have went down if he came out and admitted that he couldnt' stop a piss ass fighter like Bitch Green.

Speaking of Green, he survived Tyson by holding and countering. If Bitch Green could do it so could Muhammad and he'd do it better.
I read in the Facing Tyson book about Tyson's contempt for Merchant and Holmes. Rooney, Jacobs and Cayton were good at controlling Mike after Cus died. You're certainly right; they kept him loved by the public by telling him what to say.

Your post is good but for me it comes down to this...Mitch Green didn't fight with his hands down the way Ali did. Ali was faster than Green, he had a better chin than Green, and he's more than 10 times better than Mitch Green could ever be. Mitch fought a cowardly, but smart fight. He ran, grappled and wouldn't allow Tyson to get in more than one punch at a time. To sum it up, Green wouldn't let Tyson unleash those fierce combinations.

Ali, while a superior fighter to Green, held his hands low. All Tyson has to do is press him. Ali's head and body would be open, especially against the ropes. He'd be open for combinations all night. Mitch Green was not. You don't fight with your hands low for 12-15 rounds against Mike Tyson. That one flaw would get Ali broken in half.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

GatorPurify
Duggerman wrote
The Gr8 One wrote
I didn't mean this in a mean way. I wish there was a better way to decipher humor or tone online. This poster (Gatorpurify) also said that Riddick Bowe had Evander Holyfield's number when its been proved otherwise.

Kevin Rooney confirmed several times that it was Mitch's style that kept him from getting hurt by Iron Mike. Mike was manipulating the media bigtime back then. I read that Mike hated Larry Merchant AND Larry Holmes. But after the Holmes fight, he was super nice to Larry (Merchant) and even said that he wouldn't stand a chance against prime Larry. He just said that because it was the right thing to say to please the media. Tyson was controlled by his managers. Therefore when he couldn't figure out Mitch Green,,,he lied to the press and said he was just playing with him and taking his time. His stock would have went down if he came out and admitted that he couldnt' stop a piss ass fighter like Bitch Green.

Speaking of Green, he survived Tyson by holding and countering. If Bitch Green could do it so could Muhammad and he'd do it better.
I read in the Facing Tyson book about Tyson's contempt for Merchant and Holmes. Rooney, Jacobs and Cayton were good at controlling Mike after Cus died. You're certainly right; they kept him loved by the public by telling him what to say.

Your post is good but for me it comes down to this...Mitch Green didn't fight with his hands down the way Ali did. Ali was faster than Green, he had a better chin than Green, and he's more than 10 times better than Mitch Green could ever be. Mitch fought a cowardly, but smart fight. He ran, grappled and wouldn't allow Tyson to get in more than one punch at a time. To sum it up, Green wouldn't let Tyson unleash those fierce combinations.

Ali, while a superior fighter to Green, held his hands low. All Tyson has to do is press him. Ali's head and body would be open, especially against the ropes. He'd be open for combinations all night. Mitch Green was not. You don't fight with your hands low for 12-15 rounds against Mike Tyson. That one flaw would get Ali broken in half.
Exactly. And Mitch didn't really fight, he just survived. And I don't understand how Tyson had trouble with Mitch Green when Mitch only won one/ two rounds according to the judges.
The fight was scored:
George DeGabriel 8-2
George Colon 9-1
Pat Dolan 9-1
This was a landslide victory. The fight would of been closer if Mike had so much trouble.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Evan Fields
Did you read the Kevin Rooney interview Urban Legend posted? Mitch Green wouldn't allow Tyson to knock him out. Thats all I'm saying. Ali would have used those same tactics but better. Boxing is political anyway. The judges scored the Tyson-Douglas right for Tyson and if he hadn't been ko'd, buster would have been robbed. The judges also rooted for Tyson against James Tillis.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

49-0
Well, we already proved that Riddick Bowe did not have Evander's number. It's Evander's fault he lost twice to Riddick. Evander fought the wrong fight the first time and fought sick the last time and it zapped his strength. Are people still saying that Riddick Bowe had Evander's number? smh. Evolution  shared the ring with both men and even he said that Evander was the much better fighter and should have won.

Now to this thread. It was a landslide victory when Tyson fought Green but Tyson could never knock him out or hurt him bad. It was because of Green's style. Green can take one big punch but was never hit with the combinations that would have finished him. Look at Mike and Kevin Rooney in between rounds. They were frustrated. As for the scorecards, the judges can be biased so never look at the scorecards as if it was the gospel. Who can forget Holyfield-Lewis 1 or Joe Louis-Joe Walcott 1? Those fights were highway robberies. And the Gr8 1 beat me to mentioning Tyson's "lead" on the scorecards when he was knocked out by Douglas.

Mike Tyson and Muhammad Ali? At their very best I would say Tyson wins because he was basically Joe Frazier on steroids. Rocky Marciano would also stop Ali. It's a styles thing.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
I've said this before and I'll say it again..

No matter how hard you punch, you can't knock out everyone. Eddie Machen survived 10 long rounds against Sonny Liston. Yes, the same Eddie Machen that was knocked out of the ring by Joe Frazier and knocked out by Floyd Patterson. Oscar Bonavena could not be hurt by Joe Frazier in two fights, but was knocked out by Jimmy Ellis and Muhammad Ali, neither of whom could bang like Frazier.

There were guys that Tyson failed to knock out. Some guys just don't put themselves in position to get nailed with knockout punches. Mitch Green, Bonecrusher Smith, Tony Tucker and James Tillis were four of those men for Mike Tyson.

Muhammad Ali, with his hands low, would be open prey for Tyson all night. Once Tyson closes the gap and gets inside, you'll see fireworks and then an unconscious Ali lying on the canvas.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Zombies Ate Me
The referee plays a big part in this fight too. We can't forget that. If Ali is allowed to hold, he might get the decision from biased judges, just like in the rematch with Joe Frazier. Holding is the only reason Mitch Green, James Smith, James Tillis and Tony Tucker survived Tyson's rage.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Maximillian
Tyson didn't do well against big tall men who could jab and move well. Ali was the epitome of such a man. If Tyson couldn't hit Mitch Green or Bonecrusher with combinations, how the hell is he going to do it against Ali? This is a no brainer.

GIFSoup
"Take that, Big George!! I'mma BAAAD MAAN!! I shook up the world!!! I'm pretty!!!!"
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Malik Wright
The Greatest wrote
Tyson didn't do well against big tall men who could jab and move well. Ali was the epitome of such a man. If Tyson couldn't hit Mitch Green or Bonecrusher with combinations, how the hell is he going to do it against Ali? This is a no brainer.
Are you serious? This is a fight between two heavyweights. One is a cold blooded killer and the other is a coward. Yall already know Mike Tyson would destroy that boy in the ring. Yall already know that!!
Malik El Debarge Wright
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
Here are two fantasy posters, courtesy of eastside boxing.





This would be a great fight. Ali would win some rounds but its only a matter of time before Tyson gets in close and demolishes him..
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

KB50MJ
ESPN did a little debate on this subject. Pretty interesting: http://youtu.be/ONnXnpk96Pk
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

GatorPurify
KB50MJ wrote
ESPN did a little debate on this subject. Pretty interesting: http://youtu.be/ONnXnpk96Pk
I like Skip Bayless, but he is a trip. I just think Ali's style and not sound defense would be an invitation of Iron Mike.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Duggerman
Administrator
Marvis Frazier says here that Ali would beat em, although he admits that he's a bit biased because Tyson wrecked him in 30 seconds. He says that Ali should watch out for Tyson's right uppercut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFKWpkPt-I8&feature=relmfu
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Shane
In reply to this post by Maximillian
The Greatest wrote
Tyson didn't do well against big tall men who could jab and move well. Ali was the epitome of such a man. If Tyson couldn't hit Mitch Green or Bonecrusher with combinations, how the hell is he going to do it against Ali? This is a no brainer.
Good post. I still think Tyson would win but it would be a hard fight for him. Frazier stayed on Ali and kept attacking..he was more relentless and aggressive than Mike Tyson. Because of that i am certain he would have KO'd the guys that Tyson couldn't, like Mitch Green and Bonecrusher Smith. Frazier kept swarming and wasn't as easy to tie up as Tyson was.  

Someone mentioned the referee playing a big part in this one and I have to agree with that as well. Tyson may get a late knockout or a decision if the ref and judges are fair.
Don
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Don
Its my conviction that brother Ali would outsmart Tyson some kind of way. I love Mike but Muhammad would know what was coming and do something to throw brother Tyson off of his menacing game plan.
ONLY IN AMERICA!!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

Evolution
In reply to this post by GatorPurify
GatorPurify wrote
 And I don't understand how Tyson had trouble with Mitch Green when Mitch only won one/ two rounds according to the judges.
The fight was scored:
George DeGabriel 8-2
George Colon 9-1
Pat Dolan 9-1
This was a landslide victory. The fight would of been closer if Mike had so much trouble.
Don't take the judges scorecards as the gospel. Remember Shannon Briggs vs. George Foreman? How about the first Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield bout?

But anyway, let's use the Bonecrusher Smith fight as a reference.

That fight showcases a young Mike Tyson's biggest strengths and most glaring flaws all at once. He dominates so thoroughly, but a big part of that one-sidedness was Smith's fear and lack of punch output.

Tyson's footwork is absolutely onpoint, his punching precise and crisp, his hands blazing, his cuts immaculate; But he is, as he always proved to be, a one trick pony on the inside. One big uppercut or hook, maybe an elbow, and hold or be held. His speed is confirmed as his greatest asset, his power shown to have lesser importance. Flashes of his fragile mindset are displayed, as well as flashes of the animal intensity he could fight with.

If Tyson had the inside game he is oftened held up as having, he'd have beaten Smith inside the distance. Then again, this fight does demonstrate how good at closing distance and maximizing space(when an opponent doesn't take it away) Tyson was.

It is an interesting dichotomy, because these fights (Smith, Green, Tillis, Tucker, Thomas) show how good and how beatable Tyson at his best was all at once.

He's an interesting fighter that way.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Muhammad Ali (1967) Versus Mike Tyson (1988)

GatorPurify
Evolution wrote
GatorPurify wrote
 And I don't understand how Tyson had trouble with Mitch Green when Mitch only won one/ two rounds according to the judges.
The fight was scored:
George DeGabriel 8-2
George Colon 9-1
Pat Dolan 9-1
This was a landslide victory. The fight would of been closer if Mike had so much trouble.
Don't take the judges scorecards as the gospel. Remember Shannon Briggs vs. George Foreman? How about the first Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield bout?

But anyway, let's use the Bonecrusher Smith fight as a reference.

That fight showcases a young Mike Tyson's biggest strengths and most glaring flaws all at once. He dominates so thoroughly, but a big part of that one-sidedness was Smith's fear and lack of punch output.

Tyson's footwork is absolutely onpoint, his punching precise and crisp, his hands blazing, his cuts immaculate; But he is, as he always proved to be, a one trick pony on the inside. One big uppercut or hook, maybe an elbow, and hold or be held. His speed is confirmed as his greatest asset, his power shown to have lesser importance. Flashes of his fragile mindset are displayed, as well as flashes of the animal intensity he could fight with.

If Tyson had the inside game he is oftened held up as having, he'd have beaten Smith inside the distance. Then again, this fight does demonstrate how good at closing distance and maximizing space(when an opponent doesn't take it away) Tyson was.

It is an interesting dichotomy, because these fights (Smith, Green, Tillis, Tucker, Thomas) show how good and how beatable Tyson at his best was all at once.

He's an interesting fighter that way.
Good points Evolution. My whole point is no one can honestly watch that fight and say Mitch gave Mike trouble. Mike put a wreck on Mitch. He knocked his teeth out, punished his body, and bloodied his mouth. I know about the fights where judges were crooked but this isn't one of them. Even the commentators said Mitch's performance was pathetic.
12345 ... 8