Surviving combinations.

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Surviving combinations.

xGhostRiderx
Are people familiar with any boxers who could really take a good combination well? A decent number of fighters have good chins and are able to take one punch at a time; but I can't seem to find someone who can really take combinations well consistently.
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Re: Surviving combinations.

Duggerman
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xGhostRiderx wrote
Are people familiar with any boxers who could really take a good combination well? A decent number of fighters have good chins and are able to take one punch at a time; but I can't seem to find someone who can really take combinations well consistently.
Combinations are real deadly because you can't see each punch coming or deflect each of them.



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Re: Surviving combinations.

Evolution
Duggerman wrote
Combinations are real deadly because you can't see each punch coming or deflect each of them.
That is true Duggerman. But what people don't think about is how combinations can leave you open for counters. That's how Tony Galento caught Joe Louis flush and dropped him. It was pure luck, but he landed his blow when Joe was in the middle of performing another of his Joe Louis beauties.

Combinations were never my thing. I liked stunning guys with the straight right. When they were dazed is when I'd go crazy throwing haymakers for the knockout.
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Re: Surviving combinations.

Duggerman
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Agreed
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Re: Surviving combinations.

Phantom Punch
You don't see each punch in a combination coming so you're brain can't mentally prepare you for each punch. Tyson and Louis were so accurate and precise with their combinations that there was no escaping. Muhammad Ali never had to deal with a true combination puncher. I think he would have been knocked out, considering the one time he took a brilliant combination (from Joe Frazier in the FOTC) he would have been kayod if the ropes hadn't caught him.
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Re: Surviving combinations.

Zombies Ate Me
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Seeing Holyfield drop Ray Mercer with a two-punch combo shows he could hit the floor if hit with the right combination of blows.
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Re: Surviving combinations.

Evan Fields
If Holyfield's combinations here were quicker he may have stopped Foreman. After each punch there was enough of a pause for Foreman to recover. One punch at a time wouldn't hurt Foreman.

Photobucket

But in Zaire Ali pummeled Foreman with a nice string of punches all at once and George went down. Holyfield lacked the hand speed to do this, although he said once that Ali and Holyfield's punching power was about the same.
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Re: Surviving combinations.

Duggerman
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Evan Fields wrote
Photobucket
Holyfield may have hurt Foreman more if he'd mixed in body blows and uppercuts during that barrage. All he threw were hooks and Foreman was bracing for them. But he was not prepared for an uppercut up the middle or a body shot. That may have stunned him enough for Holyfield to land that one hook or two that he needed to floor him.
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Entaowed
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Duggerman
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^^I thought I had already convinced you that if Louis caught Ali with combinations it would be a wrap? I'm not gonna repeat our past conversations but I'll just say this; the few times Ali was struck with combinations he was severely hurt. It was rare that Ali was hit with combinations or uppercuts, but the few times it happened, he was hurt real bad. Those are situations he didn't have to deal with often. He had a great chin and could shake off one big blow really well and recover fast. But combinations from finishers like Joe Louis? Nobody survives combinations from that man. No one.

I thought we agreed on that.

I pick Ali to beat Louis. But if they fought three fights Louis catches and destroys him at least once. Ali had too many flaws in his style and Louis would feast on them. But in most cases I would pick Ali to win by late TKO. Louis would be eating jabs all night and would be way behind on points until eventually the ref stops it.
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Entaowed
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Duggerman
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Entaowed wrote
I would have to look & see if people who landed a fair amount on Ali-those that you did not mention-did not hit him with combinations.
CHuvalo did not in 2 fights?  Now I know he is no ATG fighter, but it is an empirical question if Ali survived other combinations.  Maybe you are right here too.
I still don't think you quite understand what combinations are.

Examples of combinations include a right to the body followed by an uppercut or a left hook, or a double left hook, or a jab followed by a left hook and a right hook. Or a right to the body and a left to the chin.

Those are combinations - a string of knockout punches put together. There is no way to brace or protect yourself from each blow.

George Chuvalo did not fight like that. He threw a lot of punches but not in combinations. Sonny Liston, George Foreman, these are guys who knocked you out with barrages and clubbing blows, not combinations.

Joe Louis and Mike Tyson put together amazing combinations that no one ever survived when each punch landed flush. They were so fast, accurate and precise.

Now, the few times Ali took a combination, he was hurt bad. Joe Frazier knocked Ali into the ropes when he struck him with a double left hook in 1971. Ali was distracted by the body punch and had no idea that the left hook to the chin was coming. If the ropes had not caught him, he would have hit the deck. He was on wobbly legs for the rest of the round. Frazier could have finished him but thought Ali was playing possum.

If the ropes hadn't broke his fall, and if Frazier had went after him aggressively.....KNOCKOUT! You saw how badly hurt Ali was (he admitted it later) and Joe was generally a great finisher. He knocked out most of his opponents.

No one really hit Ali with uppercuts either. The one guy who hit Ali with a big uppercut was George Foreman, and Ali admitted that Foreman had him out on his feet with one in Zaire but the ropes held him up.

Based on this, I do not see Ali surviving if caught with a great uppercut or a combination of knockout blows. He could survive a great shot or a barrage, but not a combination.

The facts are he was severely hurt when hit by them. And Louis and Tyson both had great uppercuts and combinations. I agree that Ali would likely win those fights, but there's always a chance that they could put him down for a ten-count if they landed a 3 or 4 punch combination.

And I'm not just speaking about Ali here. Name one fighter who survived brutal combinations? Name me one guy. And no, I'm not talking about flurries or barrages. I'm talking about combinations.
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Entaowed
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Duggerman
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Entaowed wrote

It is a more extreme argument to say that NOBODY will survive anyone's combinations, landed flush.

I would have to go back & see when a Hagler, Lamotta, Chuvalo, McCall, Mercer, Tua & so many others absorbed great punishment, they really never  were combinations, ALL were just "barrages"?

Of this I am very skeptical.  

What do others & boxer's here think?
Combinations landed flush tend to be devastating, but would you really say nobody ever survives anyone's flush combos?
Name me one guy. Just one. And I'll back out of the argument.

But I doubt you can. Combinations seal the deal, especially when delivered by Louis and Tyson.
Each punch landed precisely and with fierce speed and explosive power.

That's why they're considered the best finishers of all time. When they put a string of punches together, forget it. It is what it is.
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Entaowed
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Duggerman
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They're not just barrages. Ali, for example, threw flurries.

Ike and Tua slugged each other all night, though Ike threw a great jab. These were big bombs thrown one at a time...NOT combinations! You can't compare their punches to what Louis and Tyson would throw.

I realize you want me to be wrong and you're grasping for evidence, but you can't find any.

Like I said, show me some fights or guys who could take combinations. I'll wait.
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Entaowed
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Duggerman
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I reminded you about flurries because you kept mentioning "barrages."

I know you like to argue for the sake of arguing but it is what it is. You can keep trying but you won't find anything.
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Phantom Punch
This thread has gone so far off topic. But I can't recall anyone taking combinations either, particularly not from a knockout slugger in the heavyweight leagues.
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Re: Ali loses his mind after the Liston/Patterson rematch

Brooklyn's Finest
I agree with AJ. If combinations are thrown right, you're not gonna be standing.

Mike used to knock out grown men in the gym every day with combinations.

Not just Mike but if the right combinations are thrown to the right places at the right time, you're done. Louis, Tyson and Patterson (off the top of my head) were experts at that.
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