Vitali Klitschko

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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Duggerman
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Phantom Punch wrote
I voted average because looks on a record can be deceiving.
True but the numbers are still there no matter what happened in the fight. People say Rocky Marciano got gift decisions over Ted Lowry and Roland LaStarza (first fight). But does it take away from his undefeated greatness? Whether he had two suspicious decisions or not, that 49-0 is Rocky's legacy. You never hear people criticize Rocky for not performing so great in those fights.

Vitali was in control when he fought Lewis and Byrd but the losses were fair. Lewis didn't cheat. He opened a bad cut. Fair stoppage. Chris Byrd was losing to Vitali but Vitali quit. Injury or not, he quit and it's a loss for him in the record books.

You kinda proved this point earlier when you said his brother will have the stronger resume because of the better numbers. In the long run it may not matter who Wlad fought to get those numbers, but as long as he achieves them.

To me the real tragedy is that Vitali fought in such a weak era and lost his two biggest fights. I wish he'd come along 10 years earlier. Imagine him facing old Foreman, peak Riddick Bowe, Ray Mercer, Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson and all those guys during the '90s? We'd really know how tough and skilled he was if he fought in a stronger era
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Apollo
Banned User
Duggerman wrote
You never hear people criticize Rocky for not performing so great in those fights.
It's simply due to the time Rocky boxed in. When people discuss Floyd Mayweather, the first Castillo fights gets mentioned a lot ...the internet, media, footage ...Rocky didn't have to put up with that.

(by the way: I don't understand why the De La Hoya fight doesn't get mentioned. You can make a case that Floyd lost that fight)

Duggerman wrote
To me the real tragedy is that Vitali fought in such a weak era and lost his two biggest fights.
How do you say the Chris Byrd is the 2nd biggest fight in Vitali's career? It's wasn't bigger than most title fights Vitali had. And in my book, he didn't lose that fight.

Muhammad Ali's 1st fight versus Henry Cooper was more "loosish" than Vitali's fight versus Byrd. I just invented a word I think.

Muhammad Ali's fight versus Jimmy Young was more "loosish" than Vitali's fight versus Byrd.
Even Mike Tyson's fight versus James Tillis was more "loosish" than Vitali's fight versus Byrd.

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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Duggerman
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Apollo Creed wrote
How do you say the Chris Byrd is the 2nd biggest fight in Vitali's career? It's wasn't bigger than most title fights Vitali had. And in my book, he didn't lose that fight.
Because Chris is the second biggest name Vitali fought. He's a future Hall of Famer (He might already be inducted. I haven't looked) and was arguably one of the best crusierweights ever and he did moderately well as a heavyweight, capturing the title and all. At the time the fight wasn't big but looking back, it is big that Vitali fought Chris Byrd.

Vitali was winning the fight, but at the end of the day it was another loss. A win over Chris Byrd would have been good for his career.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Apollo
Banned User
No, it's not a loss. Chris Byrd never defeated Vitali Klitschko.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Duggerman
Administrator
Apollo Creed wrote
No, it's not a loss. Chris Byrd never defeated Vitali Klitschko.
 
Well, when you look at Chris' record there's a win over Vitali.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Apollo
Banned User
So you think Shannon Briggs beat George Foreman because the three judges say so? Don't you have your own point of view based on your boxing knowledge?
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Duggerman
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You're missing my point. Of course Vitali was on his way to winning. But the fact that it didn't happen officially hurts his legacy. That's what sucks about the situation.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Alucard
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Top 5 greatest HWs ever, just on h2h alone... Yes, his resume isn't that good, but only compared to his brother or a Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield... No victories against huge "names" but guys like Sanders, Peter, Adamek, Chisora and Briggs are all extremely capable boxers, plus legit HWs, except for Adamek who would still be one of the best "heavyweights" in past eras...

On that alone i personally consider his resume still better than many past greats, them having maybe more "names", but overrated and overhyped...
Luc
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Luc
In reply to this post by Duggerman
I rate Vitali very highly. I think he's a better fighter than his brother, a better counter puncher, better chin, more willing to get involved in real dirty contest.  He could have been more exciting had he had more luck with his opponents.  if  he'd have been around in the 1990s he still would have been a top 8 heavyweight.  I don't think his brother would have been a top 20 heavyweight in the same era. Vitali would have done well in the 90s I think. Where is Wladimir would have struggled against all the big fighters who would have landed punches on him and would be unafraid of his jab
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Verbalkint
Totally agree. I think Vitali was a real tough guy and that chin of his got him through the Sanders fight. Can't imagine Wlad not being wobbled by those huge lefts Sanders used to throw. He was also a lot harder to hit, just getting to him seemed hard. ATG in my opinion, Vitali ..and a gentleman to boot.
Unthought Known
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Duggerman
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I personally think Vitali was the better of the K-brothers. He could brawl, box, and had a chin of iron. He also fought really awkwardly. He's hard to predict or train for.

But Wladimir has the better legacy because of his 10-year reign as heavyweight champion and all those title defenses. Vitali could have reigned even longer. His last loss was in 2003. Just think if he never retired those few times...he would have had a longer reign and more defenses than his brother.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Evolution
I tell you what; Vitali was one the few heavyweight champions in history to stay in shape during inactivity. I saw him last two years ago and he still looked to be in fighting shape.

Most fighters let loose and eat what they want in-between fights. Most guys drink and eat what they want; krispy kreme doughnuts, pizza, whatever. Even Joe Frazier had a habit of working like a pack animal during training but when he was idle he was drinking, partying, the whole nine.

But not Vitali. He is a health nut. I admire that.

Despite his two losses Vitali's record is fine to me. Both losses were not his fault and he would have sabotaged his career if he had continued in either fight. Those losses allowed him to have no problems and dominate later in his career.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Duggerman
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Evolution wrote
Both losses were not his fault and he would have sabotaged his career if he had continued in either fight. Those losses allowed him to have no problems and dominate later in his career.
That's correct. If he had kept going in either of those fights he wouldn't have ever been able to fight again, and then we'd have even less of an idea of how great he could have been.

That would suck even more; to have victories over an emerging Bryd and an aging Lewis, but at the expense of his career. Would it be worth it? Or is it better the way things turned out? Lose only those two fights but dominate weaker opposition?
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Joe Kingman
Administrator
Vitali is an ATG. Look at his size. Not only is his size impressive, but he's really akward to fight. I see a lot of Max Schmeling in his style. I think Lennox Lewis would always have problems with a guy like Vitali. Lewis was not used to fighting taller guys, and Vitali has a really akward style anyway.

Honestly, do any of you not see Vitali dominating other eras? The Jack Johnsons , Joe Fraziers, Mike Tysons, Evander Holyfields, Rocky Marcianos, etc would not beat this man, even at their best.

Joe Louis had the chin, speed and power to maybe pull it off against Vitali. I pick Ali to get a decision over Vitali because of his speed, and maybe Larry Holmes too. Larry was tough and wouldn't stay still long enough for Vitali to potentially hurt him. A younger and better prepared Lennox Lewis would likely beat Vitali but like I said before, he'd struggle to do so, probably almost just as much as he did when they actually fought.

George Foreman would have been a great fight for Vitali, but I think Vitali beats peak Foreman too. You gotta remember, Vitali wasn't just big. He was scientific in the ring.

-Joe Kingman
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Will69
I agree a lot with what you said, but differ only slightly.  Only 2 people would make the fight a struggle with Vitali.  His brother, Wlad, who may have the best chances of beating him out of anyone, and Lewis.  (Although Vitali would have the edge (I'm talking peak vs peak)).  A prime Ali may also get a split decision as he as the chin and speed to pull it off.  (If Vitali cuts easy and Ali becomes aware of that, he would certainly zero in and make it a blood bath).  Holmes would not have the speed and would get tagged one too many times.  Holmes was damn durable, but not at the level of Ali.  KO in 6, I reckon.   Louis, and other ATGs of the past just don't have the history of fighting huge guys that are also ATGs, so I can't see them winning.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Will69
Anyone know who this opponent is? I thought it was a fake photo at first. Whoever he is, he's definitely going to need time to recuperate after this beating.

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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Joe Kingman
Administrator
Not sure who is in that pic. On first glance it looks like a photoshopped Liston.

I think you’re selling Joe Louis a little short in a previous post. Louis crushed big guys all the time. Buddy Baer and Primo Carney’s for example may not have been as good as Vitali but they had similar styles and size. Vitali never fought a Joe Louis nor was he ever hit by such a puncher. He had speed and a snap to his blows that was just unreal.

You gotta see this.

https://youtu.be/daAen677zPU
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Duggerman
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A prime Vitali against a peak George Foreman is one of the best fights we'll never see.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Will69
I've been thinking about Vitali a lot lately.  Because of his injuries and available competition, he'll never get the undisputed credit as an ATG.  Other than Wlad, I can't see anyone who can stop him.
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Re: Vitali Klitschko

Will69
Here's a good highlight real of some of Vitali's KOs/TKOs. You could tell he had revenge for Corrie Sanders. This guy had phenomenal defense, and incredible KO power.

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