Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

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Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

J.C.
I was watching some early Tyson fights a little earlier and I realized that the kid had a brilliant left hook on par with Frazier, if not better. Duggerman proved a good point when he posted this clip of Tyson's quick kayo of Donnie Long.

Duggerman wrote
Remember Tyson's fight with Donnie Long? Tyson KO'd him in the first round. People actually thought Donnie was going to be the first guy to last with Tyson. There are interviews here with Donnie, Tyson and George Foreman.

http://youtu.be/E41dDHgGqSA

Though Tyson dropped Long three times, the finishing attack was a Joe Frazier-esque double left hook..one to the body and another to the head. With left hook-favored combinations like that, it's no wonder people were comparing him to a young Joe Frazier.
IMO Tyson's hook was better. When you look at it...

*Frazier's left hook didn't work as easily on bigger guys like Ali, Foreman, Bonavena, Mathis, etc. When it did work against big men, he had to work them down with body assaults and then finish em' with the left hook. Throughout his career, Tyson's left hook brought down much bigger men with ease, Lou Saverese and Trevor Berbrick for example.

*Tyson's hook was a bit tighter than Frazier's and arguably more explosive. Tyson's hook knocked men cold. Frazier's hook left men dazed but still conscious most of the time. (TKOs).

*Frazier had a great left hook but just because he threw it all the time doesn't automatically make it the best left hook. You could argue he used it too much to finish.

What do yall think about this?
Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Evolution
No. Mike's hook was no harder or faster than Frazier's. Frazier's hook was more effective, however. I can't imagine Mike Tyson rocking Muhammad Ali with his left the way Frazier did.

Mike Tyson threw his left hook more like Floyd Patterson than Joe Frazier.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Duggerman
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Evolution wrote

Mike Tyson threw his left hook more like Floyd Patterson than Joe Frazier.
This. Mike was a stronger version of Floyd Patterson, though Mike could only fight forward and Patterson could do more things with the peekaboo style they shared.

@J.C. Joe Frazier fought during the best era of heavyweight boxing. The men he fought had great chins (Ali, Foreman, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Mathis, etc) so naturally it took some work to beat them. Only a few guys (Ali, Foreman, Bonavena and Machen) were not knocked out by Joe Frazier. (Though Machen and Ali were knocked down).

I'll never forget Trevor Berbrick falling down THREE times from one Mike Tyson left hook, but Tyson fought guys
terrified of him and without half the heart of the warriors Frazier destroyed. Frazier's left hook was short, swift, accurate and explosive.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

J.C.
Duggerman wrote
 Frazier's left hook was short, swift, accurate and explosive.
 
You could say the same thing about Tyson's. Pure dynamite. He executed it perfectly.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Duggerman
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J.C. wrote
You could say the same thing about Tyson's. Pure dynamite. He executed it perfectly.
There were flaws in Tyson's style. For example, he leaned to the left before he unloaded his left hook. Evander Holyfield noticed that and was able to parry and counter Tyson's left hook in both of their fights. Mitch Green (a journeyman heavyweight) also fought as a counterpuncher and although he was clumsy and got smashed occasionally, he was never in position to get knocked out. It was cool when Tyson knocked his mouthpiece out with a left hook. Ouch!

With Frazier there was NO way to avoid his left hook. Everyone knew it was coming but got blasted with it anyway. lol. Frazier would sling his hook after a jab, a body punch, right hand, or he'd throw double left hooks or use it as a counter punch. Since Frazier threw a high volume of punches, it was difficult to clinch him. Tyson was easily clinched and frustrated even at his best, and by less talented boxers like Green, Smith,  etc. Frazier would roll through those guys.

Tyson had a great left hook but because of his style it was less effective than Frazier's.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Entaowed
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Duggerman
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Entaowed wrote
Great analysis Duggy!  All the more so because you rate Tyson #1 peak vs. peak.
Thanks. Yeah, I pick Tyson to beat most guys head to head at his peak, but he wasn't a perfect fighter. He's not even my favorite fighter! It's just that his hand speed juxtaposed to his frightening power, accuracy, timing, defense, intimidation, killer instinct and great chin would be too much for most guys to cope with. Frazier had the better left hook between the two - he could launch it from any position and there was no way to deter it. I can't say the same thing about Tyson's left hook.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Sivul
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote

There were flaws in Tyson's style. For example, he leaned to the left before he unloaded his left hook. Evander Holyfield noticed that and was able to parry and counter Tyson's left hook in both of their fights. Mitch Green (a journeyman heavyweight) also fought as a counterpuncher and although he was clumsy and got smashed occasionally, he was never in position to get knocked out. It was cool when Tyson knocked his mouthpiece out with a left hook. Ouch!

With Frazier there was NO way to avoid his left hook. Everyone knew it was coming but got blasted with it anyway. lol. Frazier would sling his hook after a jab, a body punch, right hand, or he'd throw double left hooks or use it as a counter punch. Since Frazier threw a high volume of punches, it was difficult to clinch him. Tyson was easily clinched and frustrated even at his best, and by less talented boxers like Green, Smith,  etc. Frazier would roll through those guys.

Tyson had a great left hook but because of his style it was less effective than Frazier's.
Good post AJ. I noticed that Tyson never landed his left hook on Holyfield but I didn't realize it was because Holyfield "tamed" it. A taller counterpuncher could frustrate Tyson and keep his hooks from landing even in his prime. I'm struggling to think of a single fighter who could avoid Frazier's left hook but I'm drawing a blank. Looks like you're right. No one could stop it from coming.

Mike Tyson's hook was sensational but Joe Frazier's hook has to be #1.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

redfeng007
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Duggerman
It seemed that Joe Fraizer's left hook does not hurt George Foreman very much.



Tommy Morrison's left hook also couldn't KO George Foreman.



Could Tyson's left hook work well against GF?

It is still questionable.

Of course, Tyson has more than left hook alone.

That is why Andrew Golota has more trouble fighting Tyson. Sparring with David Tua's left hook, may not work against Tyson.

                    No left hook for you. Eat Tyson's right hook instead !!!

              Don't like my right hook. How about Tyson's left hook instead?
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Duggerman
Administrator
Lol. Frazier cracked George good with one left hook early in the fight. George was stunned and responded by immediately shoving Frazier off of him. Another hook like that and Foreman would have been on the canvas.

Everytime George was knocked down, it was a right hand that did it. Without going too far off topic, I'd pick Tyson to beat Foreman but I wouldn't favor his left hook to do it - the right hand or uppercut would.

Evander Holyfield had a great left hook but, like Morrison, he failed to hurt Foreman with it.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Bert Sugar
In reply to this post by J.C.
Jack Dempsey had a better left hook than both of them. It was a speeding left hook from hell.  Joe Louis had a better left than Frazier and Tyson too. But Jack's hook was the most ferocious left hook in the history of boxing. Ask Jess Willard about that...
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

It's Dale
In reply to this post by Evolution
Evolution wrote
No. Mike's hook was no harder or faster than Frazier's. Frazier's hook was more effective, however. I can't imagine Mike Tyson rocking Muhammad Ali with his left the way Frazier did.

Mike Tyson threw his left hook more like Floyd Patterson than Joe Frazier.
Great post and I agree with all of it, especially the bolded.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Rosco
I've seen Tyson sling a left hook just as quick and hard as Frazier. I ain't surprised Tyson had a great left hook because the style he used (peek-a-boo) is very left hook oriented. And it should come to no one's surprise that Mike's ring hero (Jack Dempsey) had a dynamite left hook so he was obviously influenced by Jack too.

Frazier and Tyson's left hooks were about the same but while the left hook was Frazier's signature, Mike's signature was a different punch. The uppercut.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Friday The 13th...
Rosco wrote
 the left hook was Frazier's signature, Mike's signature was a different punch. The uppercut.
I never thought about that. Amazing that the uppercut was arguably his most famous punch. Most swarmers didn't have much success with it. Rocky Marciano had a good uppercut but it wasn't his signature punch. That award goes to the Suzy-Q. Normally uppercuts work best for tall boxer punchers like Foreman, Liston and Lewis. For guys like Tyson and Marciano to have such an effective uppercut was a real testament to their power.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Entaowed
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Duggerman
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Entaowed wrote
I doubt a 2nd Frazier left hook would have put Foreman on the canvas in '73.  Think it would have taken more than that.  
Did you see how hurt George was from that punch? He was stunned and immediately pushed Joe away. He didn't wanna get hit like that again. It was from that point on that George started swinging (and catching) Joe with those uppercuts.

That punch rocked him and he staggered backward. I have no reason to not believe a second hook would have knocked him down. Add to this the fact that George was afraid of Frazier. He feared that left hook.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Urban Legend
Duggerman wrote

Did you see how hurt George was from that punch? He was stunned and immediately pushed Joe away. He didn't wanna get hit like that again. It was from that point on that George started swinging (and catching) Joe with those uppercuts.

That punch rocked him and he staggered backward. I have no reason to not believe a second hook would have knocked him down. Add to this the fact that George was afraid of Frazier. He feared that left hook.
Agreed. It took Foreman a couple seconds to regain his footing/balance. Another hook would have put him on dream street,
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Rosco
Everything Frazier did with his left hook I seen Tyson do. Throwing it in doubles, after the jab, after a right or after a body shot. Tyson just didn't rely on it to finish the way Frazier did. Makes sense that Frazier threw the left hook often because it didn't leave him open.

Mike said in this interview that his favorite combination was the right body punch followed by a big left hook to the chin. Guess who else used that combination?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5myL5x-qmd8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

redfeng007
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Duggerman
As much as I respect Joe Frazier, it is still about the last one standing in the ring. The fighter (JF) lying on the ground, could not take the punch as well as the one fighter (GF) standing.



George Foreman can absorb Joe Frazier's left hook and recover.

Joe Frazier cannot take George Foreman's punches and got knockdown 6 times.

If it wasn't for the referee's stoppage, I bet at least 10 knockdowns in the fight.

One thing that surpise me, Joe Frazier's left hook could not KO Oscar Bonavena.



Instead this guy's left hook finished off Oscar Bonavena. Click and guess.

https://youtube.googleapis.com/v/-VDQk030eFo%26start=0207%26autoplay=1

Still a mystery to me. He is the only one to TKO Oscar Bonavena.

Don't get me wrong, Joe Frazier still has one of the hardest left hook ever.
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Re: Was Tyson's left hook better than Frazier's?

Evolution
In reply to this post by Rosco
Rosco wrote
Everything Frazier did with his left hook I seen Tyson do. Throwing it in doubles, after the jab, after a right or after a body shot. Tyson just didn't rely on it to finish the way Frazier did. Makes sense that Frazier threw the left hook often because it didn't leave him open.

Mike said in this interview that his favorite combination was the right body punch followed by a big left hook to the chin. Guess who else used that combination?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5myL5x-qmd8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
I never trained with Mike but I used to be friendly with him. I was there sometimes when Cus was drilling guys.

One thing Cus had his fighters do was spring off the mat with the left hook. It's very picture-esque. You'll notice that Mike and Floyd Patterson threw their left hook exactly the same.

Joe Frazier only jumped off the mat with lunging left hooks when he knew his man was finished and ready to be taken.

I could be biased but I was never a fan of the peek-a-boo style of fighting. It has its flaws but a fighter with good hand speed like Mike and Floyd could pull it off. I Joe Frazier used that style he wouldn't have had the success that he did.
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