Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Duggerman
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It's Dale wrote
the boston strong boy wrote
if lewis trained lewis would win probably by tko round 8 or 9
Well, Lennox didn't train well and scored a tko in round 6.
LOL. Good point.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Duggerman
Administrator
Hey guys, boxing scribe Frank Lotierzo was pissed off at Lennox. I can understand why. After the fight, Lennox didn't wanna give Vitali any credit and made it seem as if he'd dominated the fight. Read this blog.

Hey Lewis, get over yourself! Coming off your showing against Klitschko, maybe a little more humility might be in order! And it wouldn't hurt to stop with the lame excuses. In case you forgot Lennox, Klitschko had the same short notice to prepare for you as you did to prepare for him, yet he hasn't been making excuses like you have been.

Question to Lennox Lewis? What's harder, preparing for Cedric Boswell and then having him replaced with heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis or preparing for Kirk Johnson and then having him replaced with Vitali Klitschko? I think there is a much greater jump in caliber from Boswell to Lewis than there is from Johnson to Klitschko. Going off of what I saw in Klitschko, I'm not sure it's even a step up? Basically you both had to readjust to face a bigger opponent, only Klitschko had to adjust to a bigger and better opponent. I'm not sold off of what I saw of Klitschko that he is without question a better fighter than Kirk Johnson, which is a sad commentary on the current status of the heavyweight landscape.

Lennox, get over yourself? You were behind in the fight and were clearly the more tired and exhausted fighter, you have no excuse. You are the heavyweight champion of the world, yet you showed up in deplorable condition. On top of that, you ranted on like that was a showing that should bring you much high praise. Please, you fought like a big fat washerwoman, to use a phrase coined by Muhammad Ali. You have cried to anyone who would listen about the short notice yet, you fail to mention that Klitschko's notice was just as short as yours.

Lennox, you're not a great enough heavyweight champion to show up in poor shape to fight any top ranked heavyweight contender, especially at age 37 going on 38. Did you forget what happened to you when you showed up in poor condition against Hasim Rahman? He laid you out like you were dropped from a helicopter. In fact you made a star out of Rahman who at best is a decent heavyweight. Did you forget what happened when you looked past Oliver McCall, another fighter who's only claim to fame other than stretching you is knocking Tyson down in a sparring session. Lennox, one of your claims to fame is that you avenged both of your defeats. What is never mentioned is that you should never have lost to either McCall or Rahman. The fact that you needed to fight them twice in order to beat them once is the more meaningful fact.

Lennox, you showed a lack of something that you profess to have, class. How about carrying yourself like the heavyweight champion of the world. Maybe you could've just said that Klitschko was a little better than you thought, or that his style was more confusing than you anticipated. How about giving him his due respect for the fight he gave you. No, you come across that anyone who doesn't feel you were killing him is a moron and beneath you. Lennox, anyone who watched the fight with both of their eyes open, plainly saw that you had more than your hands full. Not because Klitschko is so great because he's not, he's far from it. The fact is that you over-rate yourself sometimes and come in the ring not prepared to fight like the champion you've shown that you can be. And lets not forget, it was you Lennox wobbling all over the ring in the second round and appeared on the verge of being stopped, a position that Klitschko was never in.

Lennox, you were a great heavyweight champion. However, father time is starting to land some good shots on you. You may still have some big wins down the road but, the road is definitely coming to an end. Remember Lennox Lewis, as great of a champion that you have been, with your chin and at age 37 you're not great enough to look past any top ranked fighter.

After the attitude you copped during the post fight interview , I'm glad I can say that your legacy is built off of two decisions over a thoroughly shot 37 year old Evander Holyfield, and an eighth round knockout over a 36 year old Mike Tyson. And remember Lennox, every decent fighter that has nailed you on your chin has either knocked you out, or wobbled you like Vitali Klitschko did last night!


http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/1108-hey-lennox-lewis-get-over-yourself
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

George Jefferson
I think the Rahman loss is what sent Lewis into a steady decline. He probably was at half-capacity when he finished off Tyson, so I wouldn't say its a stretch to say he was definitely past his better days, and he still did what he had to do to make sure Vitali wasn't gonna be able to finish him. Why would he let himself get punished in a rematch when he's probably more of a faded fighter than the 1st fight?

But he made himself look like an out of shape arrogant ass. There is no excuse for his behaviour in this interview. So I agree with Frank Lotierzo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d0ayGxbelQ
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

BAD INTENTIONS
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
Hey guys, boxing scribe Frank Lotierzo was pissed off at Lennox. I can understand why. After the fight, Lennox didn't wanna give Vitali any credit and made it seem as if he'd dominated the fight. Read this blog.

Hey Lewis, get over yourself! Coming off your showing against Klitschko, maybe a little more humility might be in order! And it wouldn't hurt to stop with the lame excuses. In case you forgot Lennox, Klitschko had the same short notice to prepare for you as you did to prepare for him, yet he hasn't been making excuses like you have been.

Question to Lennox Lewis? What's harder, preparing for Cedric Boswell and then having him replaced with heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis or preparing for Kirk Johnson and then having him replaced with Vitali Klitschko? I think there is a much greater jump in caliber from Boswell to Lewis than there is from Johnson to Klitschko. Going off of what I saw in Klitschko, I'm not sure it's even a step up? Basically you both had to readjust to face a bigger opponent, only Klitschko had to adjust to a bigger and better opponent. I'm not sold off of what I saw of Klitschko that he is without question a better fighter than Kirk Johnson, which is a sad commentary on the current status of the heavyweight landscape.

Lennox, get over yourself? You were behind in the fight and were clearly the more tired and exhausted fighter, you have no excuse. You are the heavyweight champion of the world, yet you showed up in deplorable condition. On top of that, you ranted on like that was a showing that should bring you much high praise. Please, you fought like a big fat washerwoman, to use a phrase coined by Muhammad Ali. You have cried to anyone who would listen about the short notice yet, you fail to mention that Klitschko's notice was just as short as yours.

Lennox, you're not a great enough heavyweight champion to show up in poor shape to fight any top ranked heavyweight contender, especially at age 37 going on 38. Did you forget what happened to you when you showed up in poor condition against Hasim Rahman? He laid you out like you were dropped from a helicopter. In fact you made a star out of Rahman who at best is a decent heavyweight. Did you forget what happened when you looked past Oliver McCall, another fighter who's only claim to fame other than stretching you is knocking Tyson down in a sparring session. Lennox, one of your claims to fame is that you avenged both of your defeats. What is never mentioned is that you should never have lost to either McCall or Rahman. The fact that you needed to fight them twice in order to beat them once is the more meaningful fact.

Lennox, you showed a lack of something that you profess to have, class. How about carrying yourself like the heavyweight champion of the world. Maybe you could've just said that Klitschko was a little better than you thought, or that his style was more confusing than you anticipated. How about giving him his due respect for the fight he gave you. No, you come across that anyone who doesn't feel you were killing him is a moron and beneath you. Lennox, anyone who watched the fight with both of their eyes open, plainly saw that you had more than your hands full. Not because Klitschko is so great because he's not, he's far from it. The fact is that you over-rate yourself sometimes and come in the ring not prepared to fight like the champion you've shown that you can be. And lets not forget, it was you Lennox wobbling all over the ring in the second round and appeared on the verge of being stopped, a position that Klitschko was never in.

Lennox, you were a great heavyweight champion. However, father time is starting to land some good shots on you. You may still have some big wins down the road but, the road is definitely coming to an end. Remember Lennox Lewis, as great of a champion that you have been, with your chin and at age 37 you're not great enough to look past any top ranked fighter.

After the attitude you copped during the post fight interview , I'm glad I can say that your legacy is built off of two decisions over a thoroughly shot 37 year old Evander Holyfield, and an eighth round knockout over a 36 year old Mike Tyson. And remember Lennox, every decent fighter that has nailed you on your chin has either knocked you out, or wobbled you like Vitali Klitschko did last night!


http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/1108-hey-lennox-lewis-get-over-yourself
I too was turned off by Lennox's arrogant behavior in the post fight interview. All he had to say was the truth--Vitali fought a better fight than Lennox expected. Lennox was always cocky but kept it in check until after the Tyson fight. He kept repeating "I'm the best fighter on the planet" over and over. He sounded like a spoiled brat after the Tyson and Vitali fights and it made him unlikeable at those moments.....but many people were annoyed at him after the Vitali fight...he just couldn't bring himself to admit that a relatively unknown foriegn fighter took him to the brink.... As arrogant as Muhammad Ali was, he still admitted when certain fighters gave him trouble.

I think Lennox knew all along that he would retire following this fight...and there are still people that beg him every day to come back and fight Vitali. I don't see why they wanna see Lennox beat up so badly.... I'll never understand it.

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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Shogun of Harlem
I'm in the minority that believes Lennox would have beaten him (again) if there was a sequel. Think about it. Lennox trained for Kirk Johnson, a smaller fighter with a style totally unlike Vitali's. At the last second Kirk got injured and Lennox only had a week to prepare for Vitali. A tall, akward urkranian fighter Lennox probably never heard of!! Take into consideration the year-long layoff Lennox had after beating Tyson. He wasn't in great condition for Vitali. A better prepared Lennox would beat him, but I'd still suggest that he hang up the gloves soon after.

They get along fine now. I agree that people need to let it go, but in my opinion Lennox would have beat him but had nothing to prove.



But I will say that the cut Vitali received has to be one of the worst ever in boxing history. Really gruesome.

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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Entaowed
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Shogun of Harlem
Entaowed wrote
You may well be right about any prospective rematch SOH.  Though was that cut really that bad?  Many cuts that are superficial or basically so bleed a lot.  I do not think it was similar to Rocky having his nose split, with blood flowing "like a faucet" he said.  

The injuries in the early daaaze of boxing, especially bare knuckle brawls, made these things look like nothing. I recall reading about men ripping off parts of faces when I was a kid.  And even when they had gloves, Jeffries fought someone who kept at it for rounds with not only broken ribs, but a rib poking through his skin that he was protecting.  
Good observation. I never thought of that. If thats the case then I'd hate to see the cuts people got during the bareknuckle era.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Shogun of Harlem
Shogun of Harlem wrote
I'm in the minority that believes Lennox would have beaten him (again) if there was a sequel. Think about it. Lennox trained for Kirk Johnson, a smaller fighter with a style totally unlike Vitali's. At the last second Kirk got injured and Lennox only had a week to prepare for Vitali. A tall, akward urkranian fighter Lennox probably never heard of!! Take into consideration the year-long layoff Lennox had after beating Tyson. He wasn't in great condition for Vitali. A better prepared Lennox would beat him, but I'd still suggest that he hang up the gloves soon after.

They get along fine now. I agree that people need to let it go, but in my opinion Lennox would have beat him but had nothing to prove.



But I will say that the cut Vitali received has to be one of the worst ever in boxing history. Really gruesome.

I have to politely disagree. Lennox only had a week or so to prepare for the fight, but so did Vitali!! And in Vitali's case, it may have been worse because he only had a week to train for the Heavyweight Champion.

Lewis acted like a douche after the fight. He knew deep down that he was on his way to losing and had been outfought by a much younger opponent. Lewis is a smart guy and I know he can't honestly believe those arrogant remarks he made after the fight.

I think Lennox was over the hill by this point. His sad performance against Vitali and his refusal to grant him a rematch proves that.  
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Evan Fields
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Apollo
Banned User
It's out of question that Vitali would've been the favorite in the rematch.

But I question a few other things: Was Lennox really past his best? I see no evidence for that.
Just because Vitali beat him to the punch, doesn't mean he was past his best.

It's like saying Joe Frazier was past this best when Foreman got him or Sonny Liston was past his best when Clay got him. Of course Marciano would've been past his best if he had gotten the shit beaten out of him in the late 1950ies by Sonny Liston.

Lennox was very close to his prime when Vitali got him. He was a late bloomer. I don't see how you claim that he would've totallly tooled Vitali 1-2 years earlier. Vitali was just as strong at that point.
I believe Lennox had technical problems with Vitali, not physical. He had no clue what to do against him.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Duggerman
Administrator
Moejoe wrote
It's out of question that Vitali would've been the favorite in the rematch.

But I question a few other things: Was Lennox really past his best? I see no evidence for that.
Just because Vitali beat him to the punch, doesn't mean he was past his best.

It's like saying Joe Frazier was past this best when Foreman got him or Sonny Liston was past his best when Clay got him. Of course Marciano would've been past his best if he had gotten the shit beaten out of him in the late 1950ies by Sonny Liston.

Lennox was very close to his prime when Vitali got him. He was a late bloomer. I don't see how you claim that he would've totallly tooled Vitali 1-2 years earlier. Vitali was just as strong at that point.
I believe Lennox had technical problems with Vitali, not physical. He had no clue what to do against him.
There's plenty of evidence that Lewis was past his best.

1) He retired after that fight. What does that tell you?

2) Look at him in that fight. Was this the fit, sharp and conditioned Lewis that fought Tyson, Rahman, Botha, Tua, etc? No way. He looked slower, overweight and more awkward than usual. His timing and reflexes were not the same.

3) Wasn't he 37 or 38 years old? Father Time had caught up with him. We've discussed around here that sometimes fighters get old in the ring all of a sudden. Evander Holyfield looked great until he fought Lewis in March 1999. That night he was complaining of cramping in his legs, etc. Likewise I think Sonny Liston was beginning to look somewhat shot by the time he fought Ali.

If they both fought in their primes I'd back Lewis. Even Emanuel Steward has said numerous times that Lewis was better than the Klitschkos. He would know because he trained all three.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Sivul
In reply to this post by Apollo
Moejoe wrote
It's out of question that Vitali would've been the favorite in the rematch.

But I question a few other things: Was Lennox really past his best? I see no evidence for that.
Just because Vitali beat him to the punch, doesn't mean he was past his best.

It's like saying Joe Frazier was past this best when Foreman got him or Sonny Liston was past his best when Clay got him. Of course Marciano would've been past his best if he had gotten the shit beaten out of him in the late 1950ies by Sonny Liston.

Lennox was very close to his prime when Vitali got him. He was a late bloomer. I don't see how you claim that he would've totallly tooled Vitali 1-2 years earlier. Vitali was just as strong at that point.
I believe Lennox had technical problems with Vitali, not physical. He had no clue what to do against him.
Yea he was a late bloomer but do you really see this as a prime Lewis? Prime Lewis was '97-2002 although he started to approach that prime when he hired Emanuel Steward. The Lewis that KO'd Michael Grant and Andrew Golota would have eaten vitali for BREAKFAST!!

And Sonny Liston was arguably in his 40s by the time Clay got to him. He was still a heavy hitter and a threat but no match for someone young, fresh and fast like Ali. That wasn't prime Sonny in there with Clay, nor was it prime Lennox in there with Vitali.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Shane
MoeJoe, did you see how exhausted Lennox was after those six rounds? Lennox had been in 12 round wars with a lot of guys like Holyfield, Zeljko Mavrovic, Ray Mercer and others but didn't seem half as winded as he was against Vitali. Couple that with his age and the fact that he retired afterwards shows that he knew he was past his best and it was time to hang em' up. In no way was Lennox in his prime here. His prime ended in 2002. A prime Lennox Lewis would not look so exhausted after 6 rounds no would Vitali get to him so easy.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Hit Em' Hard
In reply to this post by Apollo
Moejoe wrote
 I don't see how you claim that he would've totallly tooled Vitali 1-2 years earlier. Vitali was just as strong at that point.
I believe Lennox had technical problems with Vitali, not physical. He had no clue what to do against him.
Vitali would not have been ready for Lewis 1-2 years earlier. Wasn't that around the time he quit against Chris Byrd? What technical problems are you speaking of? The fight was a shootout, only Lewis was a little too old and undertrained.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Apollo
Banned User
In reply to this post by Duggerman
1) He retired after that fight. What does that tell you?

That he knew he couldn't beat Vitali and he couldn't take on easier opponents while ducking Vitali. Would've made him look really bad. I don't believe he was afraid of Chris Byrd or John Ruiz.

2) Look at him in that fight. Was this the fit, sharp and conditioned Lewis that fought Tyson, Rahman, Botha, Tua, etc? No way. He looked slower, overweight and more awkward than usual. His timing and reflexes were not the same.

So if one fighter doesn't show up in great shape because he didn't train properly, he's automatically out of his prime? When a fighter who cleaned out the majority of his division suddenly looks bad, he's past his best?

If Floyd would've lost to Canelo, he would've been past his best? Floyd fights once a year, so you could easily argue that he aged overnight. But since he whipped Canelo, everybody claims that Floyd is better than he was in his 20ies. I disagree with that.

Vitali is known as somewhat a fitness freak, similar to Bernard Hopkins. They stay in fight shape all year, wether they get ready for a fight or not.

3) Wasn't he 37 or 38 years old? Father Time had caught up with him. We've discussed around here that sometimes fighters get old in the ring all of a sudden. Evander Holyfield looked great until he fought Lewis in March 1999. That night he was complaining of cramping in his legs, etc.

Lennox was about 37. A year earlier he was 36, and two years earlier he was 35. What kind of argument is that?

Holyfield complained of cramps and whatnot, but what does this have to do with Lennox? Lennox didn't complain about anything. As a matter of fact he went on to say that he beat Vitali at his worst and would beat him even easier if he was in shape. This was WAY after his terrible post-fight interview with Larry Merchant.

When you talk big and bad like that, at least give the guy a rematch. Lennox told Mike Tyson "Put up or shut up" - Maybe he should've followed his own advise.

If they both fought in their primes I'd back Lewis. Even Emanuel Steward has said numerous times that Lewis was better than the Klitschkos. He would know because he trained all three.

No, Emanuel didn't train all three of them. He never trained Vitali. So of course he's going to say that Lewis would beat Vitali. If he claims otherwise, it means he doesn't have faith in his own coaching abilites.

I'd back Lewis to beat Wladimir. But I believe that any version of Lewis gets close to defeat (or gets defeated) against Vitali. It wouldn't have been different if they boxed in 1998-2000.

Lennox was always a smart guy as far managing his own career went. The reason you look at the past you do is because he made a smart decision by retiring.
His other options would've been: A) Ducking Vitali and beating other top contenders like Byrd and Johnson (and possibly Wladimir). But this would've just shown that he was still in his prime.

or B) fighting Vitali again and losing. If that would've happened, we certainly wouldn't have this discussion.

There's always option C), and in this case it was the smartest option Lennox could've taken.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Apollo
Banned User
In reply to this post by Hit Em' Hard
@ Hit Em' Hard - Vitali looked amazing in 1998 already.

He quit against Byrd due to his messed up shoulder. I could go into details about that, but I won't now. Byrd was losing that fight, so if a guy like Vitali quits after round 10 (without taking any punishment by Byrd) he must have his reason.
Vitali is knows as a road warrior - he fights you in your backyard. Never been knocked out, decisioned. Only a cut / injury forced to get out of two fights. (two fights he was winning on all scorecards)

I believe the majority of the US audience is biased towards the Klitschko's. (and yes, I'm aware that Lennox is from UK, Canada, Antarctica, whatever).

@ Shane - Instead of saying that Lennox was a shallow of his former self, why don't you give Vitali credit? He made Lennox exhausted. If Mavrovic couldn't do it, which is not suprising since he's no Vitali Klitschko, it has nothing to do with Lewis-Vitali.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Apollo
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Whenever Lennox lost a fight, it lit a fire in him. The rematches with McCall and Rahman prove that. Though he didn't lose to Vitali, I think he knew deep down that Vitali owned him that night.

Boxers get old in the ring sometimes. With the exception of the Rahman loss, Lewis had been on a roll since '95. Against Vitali, Lewis looked like a fighter who just didn't have it anymore. You know how cocky Lewis is. He doesn't like anyone showing him up. If he was confident that he could beat Vitali he wouldn't have retired. And, funny you mention what Lewis said about beating Vitali at his worst. He said that around eight years later..more than enough time to come up with an excuse. Why didn't he say that earlier? He was in denial.

Oh and I don't think Vitali made Lewis look exhausted. Even Ray Mercer didn't tire Lewis out that way when Lewis was in his prime. It wasn't just Vitali that exhausted Lewis...Lewis' age played a big factor in that also. A younger and in-shape Lewis could always go the distance no problem.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

49-0
No way was this a prime Lewis. No way. MoeJoe I know you're the biggest Vitali supporter here so if you back Vitali over Lewis in their primes then thats cool. But in the fight they had you can no way consider that Lewis was close to his prime. Its like saying Dempsey was close to his prime when he lost twice to Tunney, or even that Rocky Marciano was in his prime in the Don Cockell and Archie Moore fights. Lennox was aging and almost ready to be taken.

When you look at it Lewis was probably passing his prime around the time he fought Holyfield. The Holyfield rematch was his last competitive fight. After that he made quick work of Grant and Botha, Tua didn't put up a fight, you know the story with the Rahman fights and Tyson was way past it. Lewis said many times that he only fought as long as he did because he was waiting on a fight with Tyson.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

49-0
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
"Lennox, you were a great heavyweight champion. However, father time is starting to land some good shots on you. You may still have some big wins down the road but, the road is definitely coming to an end. Remember Lennox Lewis, as great of a champion that you have been, with your chin and at age 37 you're not great enough to look past any top ranked fighter."

-Frank Lotierzo

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/1108-hey-lennox-lewis-get-over-yourself
Some wise words from Frank Lotierzo. Lewis was not close to prime.
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Re: Who Would Have Won A Rematch Between Vitali and Lewis?

Bugs
In reply to this post by Apollo
Moejoe wrote
It's out of question that Vitali would've been the favorite in the rematch.

But I question a few other things: Was Lennox really past his best? I see no evidence for that.
Just because Vitali beat him to the punch, doesn't mean he was past his best.

It's like saying Joe Frazier was past this best when Foreman got him or Sonny Liston was past his best when Clay got him. Of course Marciano would've been past his best if he had gotten the shit beaten out of him in the late 1950ies by Sonny Liston.

Lennox was very close to his prime when Vitali got him. He was a late bloomer. I don't see how you claim that he would've totallly tooled Vitali 1-2 years earlier. Vitali was just as strong at that point.
I believe Lennox had technical problems with Vitali, not physical. He had no clue what to do against him.
Eh....What's Up, Doc?
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