Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

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Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Left Hook From Hell...
I was watching the rematch today and Schmeling just took a pummeling. Why? He didn't even attempt to grab onto Louis. Instead he held on to the ropes and screamed like a woman in a high pitch. Was his defense that bad?

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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Duggerman
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When Louis struck guys, it's as if he paralyzed them. Billy Conn stopped moving too, when Louis landed that counter-right that set up the finish. Boxers generally clinched less back then anyway, but Louis had that explosiveness that stopped guys dead in their tracks when he landed. You either went down immediately or you stood there blank and pigeon-toed as he finished you off.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Bert Sugar
Duggerman wrote
When Louis struck guys, it's as if he paralyzed them. Billy Conn stopped moving too, when Louis landed that counter-right that set up the finish. Boxers generally clinched less back then anyway, but Louis had that explosiveness that stopped guys dead in their tracks when he landed. You either went down immediately or you stood there blank and pigeon-toed as he finished you off.
Once he had you on the hook, you were on the hook! Check the history books and fight records. No one escaped Joe once he had them hurt.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

RICKY TAN
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
When Louis struck guys, it's as if he paralyzed them. Billy Conn stopped moving too, when Louis landed that counter-right that set up the finish. Boxers generally clinched less back then anyway, but Louis had that explosiveness that stopped guys dead in their tracks when he landed. You either went down immediately or you stood there blank and pigeon-toed as he finished you off.
Great post and you're absolutely right. This says a lot about his firepower. People realize he was a slugger but I feel he hit a lot harder than given credit for.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Left Hook From Hell...
Brilliant insight guys. So what other heavyweight made guys freeze up when he hit them? And what causes that? Did Louis strike something in the nervous system or something? Maybe Entaowed knows (it's a scientific question right up his alley)
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Duggerman
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Left Hook From Hell... wrote
 So what other heavyweight made guys freeze up when he hit them?
Earnie Shavers. Watch his knockout stoppage of Jimmy Ellis, for example.

Jimmy went down immediately from the uppercut, but was in la-la land.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Evolution
In reply to this post by Left Hook From Hell...
Left Hook From Hell... wrote
Brilliant insight guys. So what other heavyweight made guys freeze up when he hit them? And what causes that? Did Louis strike something in the nervous system or something? Maybe Entaowed knows (it's a scientific question right up his alley)
I've been hit like that before. You see a bright flash of light. It takes you a few seconds to recover yourself. And if you're facing a dynamite finisher like Louis, he quickly takes you outta there before you realize what the hell happened.

Watch his KO over Jersey Joe Walcott. Same thing. Walcott was fighting back initially but one of Louis' blows stunned him and the quick barrage of blows that followed finished him off. It's quite beautiful. Louis' attacks and combinations were poetry in motion.

Of some of the guys I trained with, Wlad punches like that. He's sharp, so is Lewis. When Foreman lays into a punch you go numb. You may be full aware of what's going on, but your legs betray you.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Duggerman
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Evolution wrote
Watch his KO over Jersey Joe Walcott. Same thing. Walcott was fighting back initially but one of Louis' blows stunned him and the quick barrage of blows that followed finished him off. It's quite beautiful. Louis' attacks and combinations were poetry in motion.

GIFSoup Yup!
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Zombies Ate Me
Jim Braddock said Joe's jab feels like a light bulb being smashed in your face. I think Joe is another classic example of puncher's being born, not made.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

redfeng007
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Louis is defined as a 'Sharp' Puncher.

This is what happen when a sharp punch hit you right on the head.

That is why I believe that Joe Louis could finish off David Tua.

Granite chin may help, but what if Joe Louis's combinations hit David Tua right on the head.

Never get knockdown is one thing.

Taking blow after blow, while standing there defenceless, is another thing.

TKO standing on his feet.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Shogun of Harlem
Joe broke Max's spine. Clinching was probably the last thing on Max's mind. All he did was scream, and scream loudly like a sissy.

redfeng007 wrote
Louis is defined as a 'Sharp' Puncher.

This is what happen when a sharp punch hit you right on the head.

That is why I believe that Joe Louis could finish off David Tua.

Granite chin may help, but what if Joe Louis's combinations hit David Tua right on the head.

Never get knockdown is one thing.

Taking blow after blow, while standing there defenceless, is another thing.

TKO standing on his feet.
Probably. Ike Ibeabuchi leveled Tua with big combinations too and he hit as hard as Louis but not quite as fast. But I see where you're coming from. Louis destroyed everyone else he hurt. Tua would likely be another victim. The closest fighter to Louis he fought was Ibeabuchi, and Ibeabuchi was good but no Joe Louis. Far from it.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Left Hook From Hell...
Why didn't Joe hurt Max like that in the first fight? He had 12 rounds to do it but he didn't!!
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Duggerman
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This post was updated on .
Left Hook From Hell... wrote
Why didn't Joe hurt Max like that in the first fight? He had 12 rounds to do it but he didn't!!
Joe carried a lot of his white opponents. His trainer instructed him to ease his way into knockouts. Joe only went for the knockout early if you were black (he didn't have to hold back against black fighters) or if you hurt him early in the fight (i.e. Galento and Baer).

In this case Joe was going about the usual routine of jabbing and countering but got hurt bad in the second and fourth rounds. He said he couldn't remember anything after the fourth round.

Max discovered that Joe dropped his left hand after throwing the jab and eventually KO'd Louis by landing cruel counters with his overhand right.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Left Hook From Hell...
Duggerman wrote
Joe carried a lot of his white opponents. His trainer instructed him to ease his way into knockouts. Joe only went for the knockout early if you were black (he didn't have to hold back against black fighters) or if you hurt him early in the fight (i.e. Galento and Baer).

In this case Joe was going about the usual routine of jabbing and countering but got hurt bad in the second and fourth rounds. He said he couldn't remember anything after the fourth round.

Max discovered that Joe dropped his left hand after throwing the jab and would counter it with his right hand. He landed flush with this counter routinely and Max had one of the best right hands in boxing.
Cool. Joe certainly didn't play around in that rematch. Trying to carry Max is what got him killed the first time. He should have ripped him apart like this the first time.

I'm convinced that Joe Louis could have knocked out ANYBODY if he chose to. The guy could hit.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Duggerman
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If you watch Leotis Martin knock out Sonny Liston, you'll see the same thing happen. Sonny was caught off guard/hurt by a big right hand. He froze in his tracks and was then knocked out by another left and right. It was a Joe Louis-esque combination, minus the speed.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Malik Wright
I always thought Sonny took a dive in this one. Mainly the way he went down and out, plus Leotis Martin wasn't really a banger on that level. It may have been a legit stoppage but I ain't convinced. Sonny was part of that mafia underworld and his late career losses were suspicious.
Malik El Debarge Wright
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Phantom Punch
Malik Wright wrote
I always thought Sonny took a dive in this one. Mainly the way he went down and out, plus Leotis Martin wasn't really a banger on that level. It may have been a legit stoppage but I ain't convinced. Sonny was part of that mafia underworld and his late career losses were suspicious.
I disagree. Sonny wanted the title back and with no Ali around anymore, he felt he had a chance to get it, although I've also read that he wanted no part of Frazier either. Regardless I don't see him taking a dive here. He was really hurt, the most hurt I've ever seen him. Compare this knockout to the phantom punch, for example.

As for Louis' punching power, he threw those short punches on the inside and those are strong. when he punches he's putting his hip into the punch. Like how pro golfers tee off, that hip is dragging the rest of the body forward with power. If he throws a left, his left knee bends and then the strike. The same with his right.

DAmn near perfect jab, too. It's like a jolt. He puts maximum power behind it and threw it at a fast speed and it explodes when it lands. Blows like that force you to black out for half a second. You could say technically that Louis knocks you out each time he hits you. He threw each punch perfectly.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Duggerman
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Phantom Punch wrote
I disagree. Sonny wanted the title back and with no Ali around anymore, he felt he had a chance to get it, although I've also read that he wanted no part of Frazier either. Regardless I don't see him taking a dive here. He was really hurt, the most hurt I've ever seen him. Compare this knockout to the phantom punch, for example.

As for Louis' punching power, he threw those short punches on the inside and those are strong. when he punches he's putting his hip into the punch. Like how pro golfers tee off, that hip is dragging the rest of the body forward with power. If he throws a left, his left knee bends and then the strike. The same with his right.

DAmn near perfect jab, too. It's like a jolt. He puts maximum power behind it and threw it at a fast speed and it explodes when it lands. Blows like that force you to black out for half a second. You could say technically that Louis knocks you out each time he hits you. He threw each punch perfectly.
I was reading some of Joe's autobiography the other day and he said that he always had knockout power. He could hit you and it was lights out. His trainers told him he could knock out anybody if he punched properly and with the correct balance.

Chappy taught him how to get his whole body into each punch, and the rotation of the hips you just mentioned was one of the ways Joe pulled this off. Chappy used to have Joe catching flies in his hand to develop lightning quick hand speed.

As an amateur Joe was only a knockout puncher with the right. Shortly after he turned pro, Chappy tied Joe's right behind him so he could only fight with the left and his left hand became just as deadly as his right as a result.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Brooklyn's Finest
^^That's the effect you want when you hit somebody. There's a good reason why Louis was rated the #1 puncher of all time by Ring Magazine. No one packed the dynamite like him and no one put together the combinations like him. Iron Mike came the closest, however.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

49-0
Boy could Louis punch! Even with the jab. I watched Louis/Conn 2 earlier today and even though Joe was on the decline his hands were as fast as ever. What a great knockout!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5cVh9Fm21M
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