Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

MAGUIRE
Max took his beating like a man. A more modern fighter would have wrapped him up in a hug.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Maximillian
MAGUIRE wrote
Max took his beating like a man. A more modern fighter would have wrapped him up in a hug.
But thats what people are arguing against here. When Louis hit you it sent shockwaves through your brain. You don't have the sense to realize what's going on and wrap him in a clinch. Believe me. More guys would have if they had the brain power.

I think when a guy like Foreman clobbers you, you're hurt but you're still aware enough to attempt to survive. Louis' punches were like you're being electrocuted.

GIFSoup
"Take that, Big George!! I'mma BAAAD MAAN!! I shook up the world!!! I'm pretty!!!!"
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Urban Legend
In reply to this post by Left Hook From Hell...
Left Hook From Hell... wrote
Brilliant insight guys. So what other heavyweight made guys freeze up when he hit them? And what causes that? Did Louis strike something in the nervous system or something? Maybe Entaowed knows (it's a scientific question right up his alley)
There are other smart guys here too! No need to always ask Entaowed. I don't even think he's seen this thread yet.

I think Ali made guys temporarily black out too because of the speed of his blows. Not to the degree of Joe Louis, but the Ali jab/straights were so fast you couldn't brace yourself for them and find yourself briefly stunned. Once he lands them in flurries and huge numbers you're on the ground in a daze.

Louis however threw shorter harder blows (hooks and uppercuts) that left you knocked out cold. You see how long Jimmy Braddock was knocked out by Louis?
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Sivul
In reply to this post by Left Hook From Hell...
To borrow a phrase from Ali, Schmeling's "brains were shook up."
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

South Pacific
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
When Louis struck guys, it's as if he paralyzed them. Billy Conn stopped moving too, when Louis landed that counter-right that set up the finish. Boxers generally clinched less back then anyway, but Louis had that explosiveness that stopped guys dead in their tracks when he landed. You either went down immediately or you stood there blank and pigeon-toed as he finished you off.
All of this is true. Also Joe broke Max's spinal cord with a body punch, so even if Max was aware enough to clinch, I doubt his body would be able to follow through with what his mind told him to do.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Zorro
Good posts. There was something about that Joe Louis punch that literally rendered you senseless. Jim Braddock suffered a delayed reaction like the Matrix. The knockout blow hurt him but he didn't fall until seconds later.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5impNKGQkC4
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

It's Dale
I assume it was like someone was smashing Max in the face and body with light bulbs. If that happens to you, you're not thinking straight, if at all.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Phantom Punch
In reply to this post by Duggerman
Duggerman wrote
Phantom Punch wrote
I disagree. Sonny wanted the title back and with no Ali around anymore, he felt he had a chance to get it, although I've also read that he wanted no part of Frazier either. Regardless I don't see him taking a dive here. He was really hurt, the most hurt I've ever seen him. Compare this knockout to the phantom punch, for example.

As for Louis' punching power, he threw those short punches on the inside and those are strong. when he punches he's putting his hip into the punch. Like how pro golfers tee off, that hip is dragging the rest of the body forward with power. If he throws a left, his left knee bends and then the strike. The same with his right.

DAmn near perfect jab, too. It's like a jolt. He puts maximum power behind it and threw it at a fast speed and it explodes when it lands. Blows like that force you to black out for half a second. You could say technically that Louis knocks you out each time he hits you. He threw each punch perfectly.
I was reading some of Joe's autobiography the other day and he said that he always had knockout power. He could hit you and it was lights out. His trainers told him he could knock out anybody if he punched properly and with the correct balance.

Chappy taught him how to get his whole body into each punch, and the rotation of the hips you just mentioned was one of the ways Joe pulled this off. Chappy used to have Joe catching flies in his hand to develop lightning quick hand speed.

As an amateur Joe was only a knockout puncher with the right. Shortly after he turned pro, Chappy tied Joe's right behind him so he could only fight with the left and his left hand became just as deadly as his right as a result.
Good info. Schmeling probably didn't hold or fight back or take a knee when tagged hard was probably because he was effectively out of his feet, seeing stars and tweety birds and unable to recover and think straight. Joe's dynamite had that effect on a lot of guys.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

redfeng007
In reply to this post by Zorro
Rocky also did that to Ezzard Charles in their rematch.

I thought Ezzard Charles took that punch well. 2 seconds later, he fell to the ground.

What a mystery.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Hit Em' Hard
Sometimes the body stays up on instinct, but punching back? Max was blank and couldn't think clearly. He probably didn't realize what was happening!
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Left Hook From Hell...
Would "expert" clinchers like Ali, Jack Johnson or Bonecrusher Smith been able to clinch Louis before going down for the count?
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Entaowed
Banned User
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Duggerman
Administrator
I haven't watched this in some time now. I know Louis broke his spine with one of his bonecrushers. I don't remember if that's the punch that started the trouble or not. But if it was, I don't see anyone being able to clinch well if their spine is cracked. And Louis kept punching.

Just another reason why Louis is hailed as the greatest finisher of all time.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Zorro
The same thing happened to Max Baer when he fought Louis. Max foolishly tried to slug it out with Louis. Once Louis landed one good punch Max dropped his hands and stood there dazed, then Louis finished him off with a whirldwind of vicious shots. Unbelievable. Best. Finisher. Ever. All he needed was one punch to start the beginning of the end.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Rosco
Joe was definitely one of the hardest punchers ever. One punch alone could score the knock out or leave you on dream street. The follow-up bombs only sealed the deal.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Duggerman
Administrator
In reply to this post by Left Hook From Hell...
Left Hook From Hell... wrote
He didn't even attempt to grab onto Louis. Instead he held on to the ropes and screamed like a woman
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Evan Fields
In reply to this post by Rosco
Rosco wrote
Joe was definitely one of the hardest punchers ever. One punch alone could score the knock out or leave you on dream street. The follow-up bombs only sealed the deal.
Even guys with concrete chins like Ali and Tua would be stopped by Louis if he lands. Joe had them hands, man.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Friday The 13th...
Evan Fields wrote

Even guys with concrete chins like Ali and Tua would be stopped by Louis if he lands. Joe had them hands, man.
.....only if he hits them with one of his 5 or 6 punch folleys to the body and the head all at once. I don't see him stopping either of them with one punch.
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

Maximillian
Joe had an explosive effect when he landed. It's something I can't explain, but he generated great power when his fist bounced off your flesh.

GIFSoup
"Take that, Big George!! I'mma BAAAD MAAN!! I shook up the world!!! I'm pretty!!!!"
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Re: Why didn't Schmeling clinch Louis?

BAD INTENTIONS
Maximillian wrote
Joe had an explosive effect when he landed. It's something I can't explain, but he generated great power when his fist bounced off your flesh.
I know what you're talking about...he was quite special...David Tua is imo the hardest hitter I've seen in person....when he nails you...you hear the POP and your head snaps....it leaves you unconscious....Louis didn't hit as hard as a Foreman or Tua but he punched with a cobra-like effect....one punch could scramble your mind and leave you dazed....then the following punches leave you on the mat.....my favorite Louis combination was the left hook to the head, then a left to the body and then a right uppercut to the head....I don't recall anyone suriviving that one....he was a smooth operator....watching him put punches together was a thing of beauty....brilliant fighter.
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